Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans friendly thread!

999 replies

100lbtolose · 23/01/2018 14:43

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me Grin this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 23/01/2018 15:49

I'm so tired of people calling us disgusting. There are plenty of people in this world who behave in genuinely disgusting ways and they are mostly not radical feminists. It's actually very hurtful. Do our feelings not matter?

Beeinthecity · 23/01/2018 15:49

I absolutely support transgender rights.
I absolutely think if a person was born male /female but has felt all their life that they are in the wrong body that that person has a right to medical treatment either physical or mental.

One of my children's close friends is transgender so I bear no prejudice.

I will absolutely stand up for trans rights.
I have no issue whatsoever with sharing a changing room with someone who has gone through full surgery.

What I have issue with is that SOME people who are standing out for the trans community are doing so against the rights of women and not alongside the rights of women as you would think given their very point is that trans women are women.

Those people who knock down those born as female. Some of the stuff I have seen written about women on social media by this community is awful.

If you are a trans woman and are therefore a woman then stand with us not against us, don't mock women's fears about wanting to be safe, don't dismiss their worries. Most women I know have suffered some kind of sexual harassment, abuse or heckling. Just as a trans person faces abuse so do birth females. Stand with us against that.

Absolutely call for changing rooms where you feel safe but don't call for changing rooms (curtained only ones) that make birth females feel unsafe instead.

If you want to use the women's changing rooms because using the male ones leaves you feeling unsafe trying on a dress I get that. Changing the changing rooms to fully mixed gender with just curtains not doors with all of the general population so the very people who harassed you in the male rooms are in the same place still I don't get.

I'm not scared of the trans community but those changes open changing rooms up to the entire male community and there are whole forums of male voyeurism on young women and Teen girls and news stories of issues.

I also feel that certain of them stir up a lot of shit for the trans community and trans people I know are often horrified. As is usual for any sector of society there are certain people that shout the loudest claiming to speak for others.

I do also have issue with someone deciding from day to day whether they are male or female as that is not what my experience of people who are transgender experience.

I have issues that someone in a male prison with a penis can decide they are female and be moved to a female prison despite the fact they committed sexual crimes against women.
There was a story on here about a trans male to female who hadn't had surgery in a bail hostel with women who was causing hell.
The prison service is leaving themselves wide open to being sued.

I however have no issue with a person who has gone through surgery being in a women's prison. If someone is genuinely transitioning then I support that being done safely too.

HipNewName · 23/01/2018 15:50

trans rights are a feminist issue

no, just no no no no

I'm not transphobic, but you don't get to define feminism.

So much of the dialogue about this ends up sounding like a Monty Python skit to me.

ArbitraryName · 23/01/2018 15:50

And the transphobia does get me down

Again: which of the posts on this thread are actually transphobic?

Questioning and debate are not hate or fear.

I’ll repeat: the vast majority of those you think are ‘transphobes’ do not think any harm should come to anyone for how they present themselves or what they believe about themselves. But that doesn’t mean that the world at large should just accept their version of reality. Solipsism is not a great basis for society.

KillDora · 23/01/2018 15:50

Op and others...please read all of the posts on this board and others and then please, for the love of God, SHOW ME ONE THAT YOU THINK IS TRANSPHOBIC.

Just one!!!

Because every single time that word is thrown around not one of you is ever willing to point out what exactly you found transphobic.

Or is it as I suspect and to you and others like you 'transphobic' simply means 'questions absolutely anything to do with trans ideology'.

Battleax · 23/01/2018 15:50

I'm a bit bored of "transphobia" allegations being thrown vaguely around and never substantiated.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 23/01/2018 15:50

I am all for trans people having equal rights. But not at the cost of diminishing my rights or my daughter's. there is absolutely no need for trans people to have decided they have to march all over our spaces as part of their requirement for equal rights. This makes me think therefore there is a hidden and duplicitous agenda. I will not let you frame the debate, nor tell me what I have to believe.

I am trans friendly but that doesn't mean I believe they are a different sex from the one their body is.

jeaux90 · 23/01/2018 15:50

This thread is like a tactical infiltration. Mumsnet was being tweeted as one of the last bastions of free speech on this issue over the last few days.

Funny timing that suddenly this thread pops up trying to no platform debate.

Many of us support trans people, were beside our friends as they fought for their current rights.

It doesn't mean we support self ID.

And to quote Miranda Yardley sometimes treating everyone the same is the most unfair thing you can do.

Shoxfordian · 23/01/2018 15:50

I wasn't referring to this specific thread but mumsnet in general.

I have reported transphobic comments before, reported one last week, can't copy and paste it because its been deleted.

blackdoggotmytongue · 23/01/2018 15:51

This is all a bit pointless.
Op: you all hate trans people. I’m going to wait until someone who doesn’t hate transpeople shows up.
Mn: (chorus) I don’t hate transpeople
Op: (puts fingers in ears and says lalalaIAmNotListeningToYou)
Mn: still don’t hate transpeople.
Op: (ignores)

It’s going to be a long day.

TinyRick · 23/01/2018 15:51

Okay if you are indeed genuine, perhaps start a general LibFem thread.

Fits the 'Feminism' label (so to speak) and you can be all 'pro-trans', pro sex work and super pro men as you want to be.

I'd read out of interest. Just to try and work out the thought processes involved.

Cindie943811A · 23/01/2018 15:52

Thank you for starting this thread OP because it has meant I’ve needed to try to sort my feelings. I am not anti-trans and enjoy meeting people with different life experiences to my own. However there are certain experiences I’ve had which are unique to those who are born biologically female and I have always felt this provides a bond with like women. The funny thing is that most trans women I’ve met, seen on the media etc better meet the accepted standards re feminine appearance than I do! I am and never have been interested in fashion or makeup etc and just aim to look neat and tidy to “fit in”.
So basically, I think I’m saying that I accept trans people of either gender as people per se and don’t feel either gender to have more in common with me than other congenital females.
Is this view acceptable to trans people OP or do I need to read a bit more?

Datun · 23/01/2018 15:52

I recommend everyone does what the OP suggests and not post unless they support self ID.

The thread will die quite quickly.

At which point, the OP will post something a teensy bit controversial in an attempt to get everyone fired up.

It would be a good experiment.

clarinsgirl · 23/01/2018 15:52

OP. This is a forum for open debate not a place where you can dictate who may comment and what views they may share. You will find a wide variety of views and you'll learn lots by listening to them.

I've never heard transphobia on mumsnet. What I have heard are some very valid challenges to proposed changes which will negatively impact women.

Also, as well as opinion, there is fact. Fact, someone born a biological male will always be a biological male. That of course in no way stops a man dressing as he chooses, having surgery, wearing make up or taking a female name. Nor should he face prejudice because of his choices. However, he is not women.

KayaG · 23/01/2018 15:53

The only hatred I've see in real life is the hatred some transwomen show towards women. It's frightening, frankly.

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 23/01/2018 15:53

Still waiting for any answer at all....or any cut and paste of actual transphobia.

I still live in hope that one day, someone will be able to define a "woman" to me without resorting to horrible stereotypes, lady brains or "feelz".

crunchymint · 23/01/2018 15:53

Feminism is about women. It used to be called women's liberation. It was called that because it was about women being liberated from their domination by men.
Read the 7 demands of the women's liberation movement. That is its origin and there is so much we still need to fight for.

stitchglitched · 23/01/2018 15:54

People can read and I appreciate threads like this because of all of the lurkers. When you shout transphobia in response to respectful intelligent and reasoned posts, when you have literally no argument to the point where you can't even give a definition of what a woman is, more and more people will roll their eyes and reach peak trans.

clumsyduck · 23/01/2018 15:54

Oh do fuck off
You really can't come on a message board and tell people what they are and aren't allowed to say

Cocolepew · 23/01/2018 15:54

There is no transphobia running rampart on MN.
Saying trans identifing men aren't women isnt anti anti. It's a fact.
The vast majority of posters will not really give a shit how people dress or what name they decide to use.

100YearsOfVote · 23/01/2018 15:55

"I think trans men are men and transwomen are women"

So OP, you would be happy for Transwomen to represent women everywhere -- women/female MP's all Transwomen, womens sports all Transwomen, women on game shows and reading the news all transwomen, etc etc, etc - and you think that is good for equality and good for females?

Do you really believe this is an OK situation and that Transwomen can fully represent the female sex and all women should shut up and be happy about this?

Should we feel grateful too?

Battleax · 23/01/2018 15:55

I have reported transphobic comments before, reported one last week, can't copy and paste it because its been deleted.

If there's none to C&P because the odd bit is promptly deleted, then MN is hardly the teeming sewer of transphobia being portrayed, is it?

100YearsOfVote · 23/01/2018 15:57

The 7 demands of the UK Second Wave Women’s Liberation Movement (from 1971 to the present…..!!)

(International Women’s Day 1971)

1 – Equal pay now
2 – Equal education and job opportunities
3 – Free contraception and abortion on demand
4 – Free 24hr nurseries
(National Women’s Liberation Conference, 1975)
5 – Financial and legal independence
6 – An end to all discrimination against lesbians and a woman’s right to define her own sexuality
(the last -so far- …National Women’s Liberation Conference, 1978)

7 – Freedom from intimidation by threat or use of violence or sexual coercion, regardless of marital status and an end to all laws, assumptions and institutions which perpetuate male dominance and men’s aggression towards women

finnmackay.wordpress.com/articles-i-like/the-7-demands-of-the-uk-womens-liberation-movement/

crunchymint · 23/01/2018 15:57

Mumsnet feminism board is full of intelligent women who question stuff. That is why you see the views you do on here.

Germ1360 · 23/01/2018 15:57

No, feminists, you're doing it wronnnnng!

You're either supposed to agree with me or you're supposed to be horrible and transphobic so you can get quoted, your posts deleted, outed, etc...

You're not supposed to be reasonable and ask relevant, polite questions and say no-one hates transpeople!

Anyone who does anything like that, I'm not talking to you, only the nice people who agree with me.

Hmph.