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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans friendly thread!

999 replies

100lbtolose · 23/01/2018 14:43

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me Grin this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
AngryAttackKittens · 24/01/2018 15:06

Sea Monkeys Are Real Monkeys!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea-Monkeys

Wikipedia is full of liars who want sea monkeys to die.

Deadlylampshade · 24/01/2018 15:07

Oh was sonic satire? I can’t tell anymore Grin

Battleax · 24/01/2018 15:07

None of us can Smile

ChemistryGeek · 24/01/2018 15:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SwerfyTerfy · 24/01/2018 15:09

Sonic, I have mentioned upthread my experience as someone who has worked with abused, oppressed and marginalised women and girls in multiple countries spanning 2 decades.

Please, in any country of your choosing (or globally) with verifiable sources, explain.

How many transwomen a week are killed by their husbands or defacto partners?
How many transwomen experience rape and sexual assault?
How many rapes against transwomen go unreported?
How many rapes against transwomen, once reported, get to court, and how many of those results in convictions?

I can tell you that almost half (44%) of Mexican women experience some kind of abuse from their partners.
In the UK that number is approx 25%.
Hundreds of women each year in the UK kill themselves within 6 months of attending hospital for an injury caused by DV. (Source; ONS, women's aid)

Almost 10 (9.8) adult women are raped in England + Wales EVERY HOUR
Let that sink in.
EVERY, FUCKING, HOUR 10 lives are changed in one of the most horrific ways. That doesn't even include girls under 16. (Source; rape crisis)

31% of women between 18-24 report being sexually abused in some way prior to 16 (source - NSPCC).

I will happily review your statistics too, Sonic
I eagerly await your response.

Beachcomber · 24/01/2018 15:09

Well you had me.

Cos that is just what they sound like.

SwerfyTerfy · 24/01/2018 15:11

I apologise if you are joking sonic
You got me.
Smile

blackdoggotmytongue · 24/01/2018 15:17

I can’t decide if Sonic is a parody genius or inadvertently demonstrating the entire issue. Grin
Either way, it fits in really well. As a punctuation point in the midst of an articulate discussion, it brilliantly demonstrates that #nodebate makes you look a bit foolish.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 24/01/2018 15:20

TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN

Does that explain further?

Erm, not really. Can you say how?

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 24/01/2018 15:21

Ah - missed the follow ups!

It'd be funny if it wasn't for the fact that is pretty much precisely what Madigan et al are tweeting in real life.

Datun · 24/01/2018 15:23

Pretty certain that sonic is gender critical.

whoputthecatout · 24/01/2018 15:24

Sea cows are cows, of course. Here's the thing though. How do you milk them under water?

Weezol · 24/01/2018 15:27

Battle 'Mock Turtles ARE Turtles' is possibly the best comparison I have seen.

AdalindSchade · 24/01/2018 15:27

Sonic is joking...I'm 99% sure! She's parodying the drivel that Liam Madigan spews all over social media.

You forgot the kiss though hun x

Battleax · 24/01/2018 15:29

Battle 'Mock Turtles ARE Turtles' is possibly the best comparison I have seen.

I think my analysis gets better when I'm not really thinking. But I won't dwell on that because it's disheartening Smile

Collidascope · 24/01/2018 15:30

Well, while we're on satire:

OP, I'm a trans ally too. Not transgender but trans age. I was wrongly assigned 0 at birth almost thirty years ago but actually I identify as a primary age child. After all, I quite enjoy watching SpongeBob Squarepants, and for my last birthday, my partner took me to Toys R Us to buy Lego (which the two of us spent many happy hours playing with). I also can't stand the taste of alcohol and would rather unwind in the evening by eating chewits. Clearly I am not just a slightly eccentric adult though.
I can't wait for society to catch up with me, so that I'll be allowed to return to the safety of primary school and being cooked for and taken care of rather than having to have a job and taking on a basic level of responsibility for myself. It'll be fun getting changed with the other children, competing with them at sports day, taking part in all the competitions which I'm sure I'll win, getting into the cinema and on buses more cheaply, getting the medicines that actually taste nice.
In fact, you could argue that given I have already been a cis primary child, my claim to now being a trans primary child is more valid as I actually know and remember what it is like to be a child (as opposed to a man claiming to be a woman...).

SonicBoomBoom · 24/01/2018 15:30

Sorry, my gender-neutral baby awoke. Had to dash.

Battleax is correct, I have moved fully beyond the peak into a Braveâ„¢ new world.

Battleax · 24/01/2018 15:32

Sorry, my gender-neutral baby awoke. Had to dash.

Did you ice it?

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2018 15:32

It needs repeating. This nonsense is an example of a classic cult. It is Transcult.

When you talk about a cult, the automatic assumption is religious nutters who believe in the end of the world. Our image of a cult in this way, often prevents us from seeing one for what they are.

A cult doesn’t need to be a religion. Its merely a set of beliefs to which adherence to is crucial and central to a sense of belonging. Someone’s entire being and identity becomes intrinsically linked to that need to belong to the group. There is nothing else in their life beyond that. In the case of Transcult this is either being a transwoman/man or a liberal trans ally.

A belief in a cult can be political as easily as it can be religious, but the structure of such an organisation remains remarkably similar: a charismatic leader, a simplified singular goal or aim, restriction of critical thinking and discussion, a central bureaucracy, discouragement of interaction with others outside the group, a punishment or enforcement system, a hierarchy and a system of roles within the society and loyalty to the group at the expense of all else.

Sound familiar?

Those in the group are often the subject of exploitation which they are unaware of it. This can be in the form of personal contribution or financial exploitation. Individuals are conditioned to do or say something which is wholly against their own best interests unwittingly because the ideology blinds them to what is really going on. They are just pawns in the pursuit of power for the leadership.

Cults profess to be freeing to their members by offering them a utopian way of life, yet cults are actually authoritarian in nature, with repetitive mantras, in order to reinforce doctrines and assist in restricting debate. ‘Transwomen are women’ is a good example, and happens to be a good example of a Thought-terminating cliché and training people to adhere and believe in an idea. Encouragement of self imposed echo chambers are another way of ensuring debate is limited. Key principles or myths are commonly used to provide a framework which allows general day to day knowledge to be forgotten and be regarded as unimportant.

Still with me on seeing the parallels?

Cults rely heavily on propaganda system and enforcement of belief through bureaucracy. They shun individuals who do not comply and try to exclude them. They have their own language system and a range of offenses which are labelled as ‘crimes’ against the belief system.

There is an emphasis on this idea of virtue and how the core belief and any who follow it are undeniable good at heart. This is often matched by a sense of persecution from outsiders who do not understand and are therefore somehow evil. This sense of them versus us, entraps members within a cult, as the cult isolates them from all other sources of support.

Just today this blog by Sophia Botha has been circulating which pushes this idea that terfs want to kill all transwomen despite all evidence to the contrary.

Is this not the stuff of what we typically associate with the doomsday prophesising of a religious cult?

Harassment is sometimes used as a way of controlling those who challenge or question their beliefs. Scientology is a good example of where this is done systematically. Anyone deemed ‘a threat’ to the church is regarded as ‘fair game’ to be harassed using any or all means possible until they desist.

What was that notorious facebook group all about?

Transcult ideology like Scientology also noticeable has an aversion to both psychiatry and psychology. Why? Because they are entirely about critical thinking and the idea of the self and why we do things and what we do and therefore deemed a threat to the ideology. Hubbard went as far as pushing the idea that psychiatry was a tool of political suppression.

And whilst TRA idealogy is political not religious, it also curiously has this faith idea in which individuals are ‘born into the wrong body’ which in essence relies on the concept of a soul over science. Which is also why it is so difficult to make a rational argument against as its quasi-religious and science therefore is irrelevant.

Have we ticked all the boxes yet?

Or course, you’ll get the classic reversal accusing gender critics of also being part of a cult, which is entirely false because of one crucial, key characteristic, undeniably expressed throughout this thread:

The presence and active encouragement of engagement with others to critically think by asking questions…

But yeah, no one critical should post on this thread. Hmm

AngryAttackKittens · 24/01/2018 15:33

See my name? Totes identify as a cat. You know I'm a real cat because I'm lazy and like naps, and also because if you try to make me doing anything I don't feel like I'll either ignore you or pounce on your hand, depending on mood.

Anyone pointing out that I lack fur, a tail, and a spine like a slinky is a bigot who wants me to die.

AngryAttackKittens · 24/01/2018 15:35

Also cis cats are all shit at being cats, it's like they're not even trying. Not like me!

Battleax · 24/01/2018 15:44
Grin
SonicBoomBoom · 24/01/2018 15:47

Did you ice it?

No, why would I do that? Hot water is cold. And much more pleasant.

Hot water is actually better at being cold water than cold water. Cold water should shut up and get with the programme.

AngryAttackKittens · 24/01/2018 15:47

A belief in a cult can be political as easily as it can be religious, but the structure of such an organisation remains remarkably similar: a charismatic leader, a simplified singular goal or aim, restriction of critical thinking and discussion, a central bureaucracy, discouragement of interaction with others outside the group, a punishment or enforcement system, a hierarchy and a system of roles within the society and loyalty to the group at the expense of all else.*

The charismatic leader part is the bit where I get confused, since most trans activists have all the charisma of a damp napkin.

BeyondWW · 24/01/2018 15:52

Me.

Trans friendly thread!