Trans friendly thread!

[100lbtolose]

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

Some great suggestions! I honestly don't know what the answers may be. But if Curry and others want to share I think we should listen and attempt to find ways forward.

YetAnotherSpartacus - sorry, I better understand you now. I follow a few detransitioned women on social media and via their blogs and videos and I'll admit that I find some of what they say quite challenging. But also educational - and I do think that I need their perspectives because there are going to be a great many people like this in the future.

I have a transsexual/truscum (whatever you want to call non-TRA trans people) friend of many years standing and

I would really like to see more research into the connection between trauma and transition for trans men. There seem to be a disproportionate number of trans men who decided to transition after experiencing some form of sexual abuse, and I worry for the future of the people in that category given the current trend towards "informed consent" and the push to cut counselling out of the process as much as possible.

Bugger. Sorry. Submitted too early!

... and I agree that she has particular needs that are not widely being met by society (endless to come out or not come out concerns, for example) that we should all listen to and try to work towards for GNC people. I agree with you that she isn't a badge for me to wear as a gender critical feminist.

Trying not to get into inappropriately personal territory as it's not my story to tell but I also have a close friend from a long time ago who's been directly impacted by this and that's why a. I know that I can't shift my mental perception of someone's sex no matter how much I love them and b. that the bright clean all desire to transition is due to dysphoria and there's no need for counseling to talk about anything else that might be going on narrative isn't the whole story for some people.

”we don't take this any further to really consider how we might be mutually supportive and we don't explore much about what their needs might be”

I wonder if the reason we don’t see this is cause we (“truscum” and “terfs”) generally accept the existing rules around the GRC and the polite below-radar acceptance of transwomen in the past? As far as I have interpreted it from GC transwomen, they aren’t after any additional “needs” that we need to think about - their needs for safety and employment protection are covered under existing EA legislation already.
Curry and pidgeon, is that your interpretation?

Lang - yes you do get it now. Thanks for persevering.

I love these threads, OP has no doubt peak transed a few lurkers with her pitiful goady fuckery. Well done, OP!

See I agree with dodos points, but I don’t think they are specific “trans” aims - they would benefit society in general. Smash the boxes, not make more boxes etc etc

As far as I have interpreted it from GC transwomen, they aren’t after any additional “needs” that we need to think about - their needs for safety and employment protection are covered under existing EA legislation already

I've been wondering about their needs around identity, understanding, solidarity, community, etc. (just for starters).

It strikes me that 'old-fashioned' or 'gender critical transwoman' might be a very lonely and isolated place to be.

(Apologies, it’s takkng me ages to type as I’m on my phone, so I’m consistently about half an hour behind everyone else!!)

Hoorah for Curry and Pidgeon. It is hilarious how many posts this attracts which start with 'I haven't read the thread but you are all horrible' :)

It strikes me that 'old-fashioned' or 'gender critical transwoman' might be a very lonely and isolated place to be.

I think without doubt, it is. You're an outlier in wider society and vulnerable to homophobic abuse because of it but the movement that is supposed to be for your protection and liberation shuns you because you don't subscribe to magical thinking.

I think without doubt, it is. You're an outlier in wider society and vulnerable to homophobic abuse because of it but the movement that is supposed to be for your protection and liberation shuns you because you don't subscribe to magical thinking

Yes. That's one reason why I feel bad for head-patting without something a little more substantial.

You're an outlier in wider society and vulnerable to homophobic abuse because of it but the movement that is supposed to be for your protection and liberation shuns you because you don't subscribe to magical thinking.

..and the same statement holds good for many others as well, like young lesbians...........

Yes - and I do my best to support young lesbians too when I come across them (and I'm straight). The two are not mutually exclusive. If a young lesbian posted here I think that she would get oodles of support.

@100lbtolose it tells me everything I need to know about you, that you ignored the post by @SwerfyTerfy then claimed @BattleCuntGalactica is 'fighting the good fight'.

and the same statement holds good for many others as well, like young lesbians

Absolutely.

Is it possible to peak Trans twice? If so I think I have double peaked!

I think it's less of a single peak and more of a mountain range.

As far as I have interpreted it from GC transwomen, they aren’t after any additional “needs” that we need to think about - their needs for safety and employment protection are covered under existing EA legislation already

I can't speak for anyone else but for me that is exactly it.

I think there are things we need to campaign for, most definitely. But I would say those are things that wouldn't cause dispute between other marginalised groups i.e. better mental health care provision for all, an end to male violence whoever it is aimed at and ways to achieve that. Separate categories in sport, separate facilities etc.

These current 'campaigns' do nothing for anyone except a handful of extremely dangerous men who have hijacked a cause to further their own ends. And threaten all who stand up to them.

@PidgeonPodge I think there are things we need to campaign for, most definitely. But I would say those are things that wouldn't cause dispute between other marginalised groups i.e. better mental health care provision for all, an end to male violence whoever it is aimed at and ways to achieve that. Separate categories in sport, separate facilities etc.

What do you reckon the chances of the loudly self-proclaimed "allies" on this thread helping you out are?

Hi OP, I'm an ally. So pleased to see this thread.

TRANS 👏 WOMEN 👏 ARE 👏WOMEN 👏

Clue's in the name. Just like French women are women. And short women are women.

I have read the stories of lots of the trans community. Trans women experience the EXACT SAME experiences as ciswomen because they always have been female in all the ways that count and they grew up as a woman even though they said they were male because they were AMAB incorrectly. Except trans women have EXTRA oppression and discrimination than cis women because of transphobia. So actually, trans women have it much worse.

Solidarity 🌹 ✊

Well that's the thing, isn't it? If you take the extreme TRA position that the only reason any trans people have mental health issue is because of discrimination then of course you believe that the solution is to force people to play along with whatever any given trans person says and then there will be no more problem. But a. that's not how mental health issues work and b. there's no way you could ever exert a level of control where nobody ever says anything non-validating to a trans person ever even if that did constitute appropriate mental health care, which again it does not.

My friend needed counselling for PTSD, not for everyone around her to be forbidden from telling her that her build didn't look particularly masculine.

Oh hi Lily!