Trans friendly thread!

[100lbtolose]

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

I still have the scar on my forehead from when I had a glass smashed over my head in the pub and called a revolting tranny.

God humans are disgusting. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

Winchester
Tbh, I think a lot more posters have flocked to these Feminist boards instead of left them.
More people are engaging in the debate.
The current trans ideology and move to Self Id is harmful to Women and those who are Trans.
My cynical view is, once Self Id is in, after Labour making it their hill to die on, the Tories can then justify cuts in the funding to Trans services.
It could be my suspicious nature though.

I'm pretty sure I'm not anti trans. I'm definitely anti-misogynist though, and it's downright weird how much of an overlap there is between a misogynist and a trans activist.

I prefer to settle for pro-woman. I know where I am with that.

The road to Damascus on trans activism is one way, by the way, OP. No-one ever started off anti-trans, then dug deep into the wilder extremes of transactivism and got on board. Most people are like me, and were unthinking, virtue signalling trans allies deploying few critical skills, who realised one day the effect of self-ID and "transwomen are women" would had and woke up like someone had set our bed on fire.

What do you make of Curry & Pigeon, OP?

Probably the same as every other person who just calls everyone bigots and transphobes and refuses to engage. So nothing much.

I still have the scar on my forehead from when I had a glass smashed over my head in the pub and called a revolting tranny.

So sorry that happened to you I expect certain posters on this thread think this genuine transphobic violence is indirectly caused by gender critical women. As so many trans allies have told me.

glitched
Philosophically then, I wonder why your internal self is dependent upon an EXTERNAL referent, namely other humans with ovaries?

If I were to ask you "Are you an anigav or a sinep?" You wouldn't be able to answer without knowing the definitions of those made up words. You might ask me to show you some examples, in order that you might start to observe characteristics common to each group.
And, once you understood the definition, and could ascertain the common characteristics of each group, and could begin to recognise and distinguish members of each group, you would assess which definition fit you objectively best. Am I an anigav or a sinep?

No one identifies with a word if that word has no meaning. We don't identify with words at all in fact. We identify with the CONCEPT that the word conveys. We know that this concept is true for us, or false.

You say you know you are a woman. This is because a lifetime of experience has informed you what woman means. Adult human female. Of the sex class that produces eggs and bears young. This is either factually true for you, in which case, yes, you know that you have those characteristics, or sadly, it isn't factually true in which case your conviction is wrong.

it must have a depressing familiarity, curry. Thanks for sticking around. I appreciate your posts (and I am very grudging with my feminist cookies, so enjoy )

And yes, I think we can all agree that we’re absolutely against the violence and discrimination that Curry describes.

And YY to the importance of acknowledging Curry’s experiences as a transwoman and it’s material reality. It seems much more ‘anti-trans’ to try to sweep that under the carpet (as if it’s some kind of dirty secret) while chanting ‘transwoman are women #nodebate’.

Christ yes arbitrary

curry

A little part of me wonders if the announcement about self iding disability and BAME is a cry for help.
They know they've gone too far and have lobbed in even more ridiculousness to make sure they are well and truly reined in.
No-one can believe tha shite they're spouting, surely?

God only knows what the OP means when they say anti-trans. When the objection is actually coming from transwomen themselves.

OP you must mean anti you. Personally, individually you.

Unless you, personally, individually are anti trans. You know, real transwomen, not just an idea in your head.

Do those of you who want #nodebate think going after gender critical feminists will reduce violence against trans people?

Barrack that’s an excellent post.

It’s a position of extreme metaphysical solipsism with a key logical flaw. It’s almost as if identities aren’t actually innate and essential...

Hi OP.

I have a close family member who is a trans woman and is transitioning. This is impacting our family directly.

My loved one has had to have her anxiety meds increased recently because of the kinds of attitudes people like you are displaying. My loved one just wants to be left in peace to live her life.. not used as a pawn to virtue signal and push an aggressive agenda.

You are not an ally to us. You are harming us.

Do better.

I agree that it is so unhelpful to both women and trans women to lump them together and pretend that they have the same experiences and challenges. It’s just not true. Both groups should have support and representation. But it shouldn’t be at the expense of each other.

The sad thing is that we’re it not for the TRAs we probably would be helping each other. Maybe that’s the answer, for gender critical feminists to band together with transgender/ transsexual people who feel disenfranchised with the current trans movement.

Some seriously poor virtue signalling going on here, OP.

Salutes Curry and Pigeon

Thank you both for coming on the thread - and so sorry to hear about the violence you've been subjected to. I want a world where we all come down like a ton of bricks on the violent bastards, and let people get on with quietly living life the way they see fit. In jeans and t-shirt or floaty dress and mascara, whichever you fancy, regardless of your biological sex. In complete safety, whether you conform to society's sex stereotypes or go against them. But I don't want to be forced to sign up to a quasi religious belief with no grounding in reality.

IMO everyone knows that transwomen are men and that transmen are women. The majority of people play along out of politeness but they know fine well people can't change sex.

Everyone I've spoken to in depth in RL about this know that transwomen are men but they are mostly too scared to admit this for fear of backlash. None of these people are remotely transphobic, bigoted or bad people. They wouldn't wish harm on any trans person and agree that we should call ourselves whatever we want, wear whatever we want and present however we want. They feel comfortable talking to me about it as they know I'm not going to tear them to shreds and that I agree with them.

If you were to ask my family they would tell you that Curry is a she, she's a woman and that's how we see her. However if you were to actually engage with them more deeply they would admit that I am not female and never will be but presenting this way helps me feel better and helps with my gender dysphoria so they are happy with that. According to transactivists and some posters on here, these views would make my family transphobic but quite frankly, I will not put up with my family being called transphobic. None of them have any idea what my parents went through when I was growing up and the extents they went to to help me. They are so far from being transphobic.

Bloody hell Curry, I'm so sorry

I'm glad your parents were supportive and want the best for you. I worry for many children with symptoms of dysphoria.

I accept it because they are women like any of us. I wouldn't say you're not a woman just because I don't like how you look or because you are infertile or have a disability. We are all women.

Not if you have a penis. Women don't have penises. Really, they don't.

Great post Curry

OP I can't fathom how you think speaking over / ignoring the voices of actual trans women is on any level being an ally?