Trans friendly thread!

[100lbtolose]

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

'As you support an ideology which will have a direct impact on our Muslim and Hasidic women who are not able to share spaces with men, and so impacting on their freedoms.'

. . . and many people would say that Muslim women are the most oppressed group in the world, and many people would also say that with quotes like Ben Gurions', representing a view held by many Israelis, so are Hasidic women.“Any Jewish woman who does not bring into the world at least four healthy children is shirking her duty to the nation, like a soldier who evades military service.”

Lets talk about oppression of Muslim women, or the lack of female representatives on the ftse 100 companies, child abuse against both male and females in the UK, the lack of female judges, the lack of women in the Houses of Parliament, the oppression of freedom of speech, the dire thought of not being part of the ECHR, the lack of legal aid available for women, access to justice, the crumbling courts system, etc etc. I think these are much more important issues than transgender people being able to self-identify, and they all really impact on us.

Refer to my post. I choose not to debate with people who I consider have views not consistent with equality because they do not have minds open to change. However, I am smiling at the post re hasidic and muslim women. Look at it and see it for what it is.

You'd get a wider audience in Chat. If that's your aim

glitched

Thank you for engaging

Can i ask where you stand on self ID

My friends child is trans and she is very worried about the effect it may have on her daughter

3....,I'm not he only sorce of info on the web about trans right. You can all google and research and read just like j did to come to my views in the first place.

Well in that case do you think you could link us to a sensible, rational defence of self ID as a workable principle?

Another thread where a few people post meaningless nonsense like 'trans women are women' and 'disgusting transphobia' without EVER responding to actual debate or discussion. There are ZERO transphobic or hateful posts on this thread. There never are! Just a few unbelievable dullards with no arguments or critical thinking skills.

It's not meant to make sense Jon, much like the trans arguments.

Some of us engage and discuss. You just don't like what we say.

you don't want your minds changed you want a fight!

You mean people keep disagreeing with you and explaining why.

Answer me this. I've heard from many women on this board talk sadly about reaching 'peak trans' - and I'll be specific since I don't like that phrase and it's not obvious, they mean peak TRA liturgy and ideology, not people in general. I've never once heard from any woman who has done the reading, looked into this and changed their mind to be pro.

If I 'changed my mind' to be pro all this, I'd be anti woman, anti justice, homophobic and currently signing up to political McCarthyism. I am not ok with this stuff, not because I'm stupid or because I haven't studied it or thought it through or read enough perspectives, but because it's plain wrong. Removing women's rights, removing gay people's rights, removing safeguarding, medically castrating children - it's basic right and wrong here.

Me and my partner have had a lazy day today.
One of us binge watched documentaries on TV and the other played on the PS4. One of us is wearing jeans and tshirt, the other one PJs. One of us did some washing, the other did both school runs.
Neither of us have shaved our legs or are wearing makeup or nail polish.
Neither of us has any sort of belief in an "internal gendered soul"

How do we tell which (if either) is female, and which (if either) is male?

What if, despite what you all believe, Trans woman are actually women and you're all casually dismissing them and throwing them under a bus. How tragic is That!

What da fuck.

OP, how do you define the following:
Sex
Gender
Woman
Girl
Man
Boy

I would know I'm a woman regardless of my body parts

So would you still know you were a woman if you had a penis?

What if, despite what you all believe, Trans woman are actually women and you're all casually dismissing them and throwing them under a bus. How tragic is That!

Finally a new and interesting take.

What do you mean by "if they really were"? Psychologically?

I don't think I am throwing anyone under the bus, in fact, because what I'm objecting to is Self-ID (generally not just in the case of trans people), but I'm interested in what you mean.

. I would know I'm a woman regardless of my body parts.

How? All the words in the English language at your disposal. Describe that feeling.

100LBs - if you want to increase support for your cause, may I suggest that the best way to do this would be to engage in meaningful discussion on the issues. Not start a thread and then refuse to engage with any poster except those who already agree with you. A cynical person might suspect you were trying to find out which MNers were possibly transphobic. I, along with a great many other posters on this thread, have a lot of sympathy for trans rights & safety, as long as they don't encroach on women's rights & safety.

It concerns me enormously that TRAs are arguing for, and seem to be winning, the right for almost instant access to transition, even on behalf of children who would not be deemed competent to make any other important decision.

It's fairly shocking that in the same decade that so many historic (and current) sex abuse scandals have broken, primarily of women & children by men that they were supposed to be able to trust, yet it's women's segregated spaces that are being given up as so many transwomen say they don't feel safe otherwise. It's akin to victim blaming - women are required to change their behaviour because a small proportion of men apparently can't stop being violent. If it were women that were perpetrating the violence against transwomen, presumably women's segregated spaces would be no safer than the men's?

They're not women. They're male. You can't definitely say that every man who claims to feel like a woman is sincere even. It's a ridiculous argument, when you don't gatekeep what constitutes "trans". You are taking it on trust that they feel like women and therefore it's a blind faith position.

@fissionchips

It's true. A whole group of women are being tossed aside because of your prejudice.

😂 at schrödingers form, btw.

Glitched-

Women with a disability or who are infertile are still women.

Women with a penis and male DNA are not.

What I think transactivists fail to understand is that ‘transwomen are women’ is a belief. That other people do not share, and that is OK. It is not by any means a fact even though it is often presented as one.

glitched Thank you for responding.

In fact, I know what is to be an adult biological female, because I am one.

I don't know what is like to be a woman-gender. I am me. I know what I like, and don't like. Often I have had more in common with the men around me than other females.

I also understand the concept of transsexual/gender dysphoria where people feel they are trapped in the wrong body, and feel almost disgust at their own body as it is just 'wrong'

But what I really am struggling with is how can people say they feel as if they are a woman (gender) . How does this feeling manifest itself? Can you try to put it into words?

Schrodingers Lesbian.

It's true. A whole group of women are being tossed aside because of your prejudice

How?

I honestly think i might be invisible

Is it because im still sat patiently in the ''fully supportive of trans rights but 100lb doesnt care as it doesn't fit with her narrative' corner

How do I know I'm a woman. Because I am. If I'm gay but single am I still gay? I know I'm a woman because that's my internal perspective.

I had this argument before in another thread. I come at this from a philosophical perspective and that our internal self is our true self, not our bodies.

What about people who lie?