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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Trans friendly thread!

999 replies

100lbtolose · 23/01/2018 14:43

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me Grin this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 23/01/2018 19:24

I love these threads. Is the OP going to start ranting about the crowdfunding next? LyraPotter's thread led quite a few people to donate, I seem to remember.

patrickharviesorganicmuesli · 23/01/2018 19:31

OP you really are doing more harm than good to the trans cause by refusing to engage. You are highlighting the total lack of credible argument on your side. You are also making yourself look very silly and immature by popping up every so often only to engage with people who agree with you. We know you are reading our posts so can only conclude you have no sensible response and are instead opting for the online version of putting your fingers in your ears and going ‘can’t hear you...’ Very undignified toddler like behaviour.

Glitched · 23/01/2018 19:31

The feminists here say that saying 'Transwomen are women' shut down debate but to those of us that accept it it is the key starting point.

Transpeople are the gender they say they are, man or woman. It's what's inside that counts.

Battleax · 23/01/2018 19:32

I have said this before but I will say it again - why would anyone bother to fill in the form? You are NOT going to need to fill in the form because challenging a man in a women's space is going to be transphobia and literal violence.

Yes just the possibility that you might fill out the form, or might all ready have filled out the form, gives you the power to do whatever you fancy. It's schroedinger's form.

Madigan is already playing playing a blinding game of Schroedinger's GRC.

Battleax · 23/01/2018 19:32

Already^

NotAgainYoda · 23/01/2018 19:34

You had me at your

Haven't RTFT

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/01/2018 19:34

@Glitched but that is a belief. You require people to believe the same as you before you'll discuss anything. Can you see how that is seen as shutting down debate?

Vicxy · 23/01/2018 19:35

.

Ereshkigal · 23/01/2018 19:37

The feminists here say that saying 'Transwomen are women' shut down debate but to those of us that accept it it is the key starting point

But why do you accept it? It doesn't make sense! Do you also think people should be able to identify as an animal, a six year old child, another race or physically disabled (all things people have identified as) when they are not? Don't you think people would abuse it? Aren't you worried that they might be lying or mentally ill?

ATeardropExplodes · 23/01/2018 19:37

Transwomen are women' shut down debate but to those of us that accept it it is the key starting point.

It is the only point. and a point that is never explained. Talk me through the process of a man becoming a woman...

AllMyBestFriendsAreMetalheads · 23/01/2018 19:37

What is gender?

Glitched · 23/01/2018 19:38

@assassinated

Yes I can see how from the other side it does shut down debate, but likewise by not being able to say it at all in the first place equally shuts down debate.

Glitterypinksoap · 23/01/2018 19:39

“Equality can feel like oppression. But it’s not. What you’re feeling is just the discomfort of losing a little bit of your privilege.”

How dare you?

Demanding that lesbians no longer be allowed a sexual identity or orientation that denies sex to (and therefore pisses off) men is not 'losing a little bit of privilege' it's fucking corrective rape.

Demanding that women submit to a far higher risk of rape, sexual assault, molestation and harassment is not an acceptable 'loss of a little bit of privilege' for the sake of equality. It's throwing women's rights back about a hundred years.

Demanding that women no longer may talk about their biology or even claim as female is not 'losing a little bit of privilege', it's fucking making biological women subhuman, subjugated, silenced and erased.

The whole 'privilege' spin is basically about shaming and silencing people into surrendering their rights and it's as unethical and immoral as the rest of this insane bullshit.

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/01/2018 19:39

When you say it's what's on the inside that counts, you're implying that there is such a thing as a soul that is gendered, or a brain that is gendered. A female soul or brain incorrectly found in a male body, in the case of transwomen. Do you believe in gendered souls or brains?

Original poster
100lbtolose · 23/01/2018 19:40

To answer why I'm not debating...

  1. V clearly said from the start that wasn't my point
  1. There are too many of you
  1. I'm not he only sorce of info on the web about trans right. You can all google and research and read just like j did to come to my views in the first place. If you really wanted to learn in good faith you could but you would rather send 100s of messages to me and assume that if I don't answer its because there aren't answers when actually there ARE answers and people cleverer and better spoken then me you could read. But I know any answer I give here you won't even consider it properly, you don't want your minds changed you want a fight!

Well I'm not here for a fight I'm just here to let trans MNers and trans supporters know that inn here as an ally and not everyone on MN feels the same way as the majority,

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 23/01/2018 19:41

Yes I can see how from the other side it does shut down debate, but likewise by not being able to say it at all in the first place equally shuts down debate.

Oh you do make me laugh! You can't justify it? It is a faith position then. A quasi religious belief. Would you agree?

Glitched · 23/01/2018 19:42

I accept it because they are women like any of us. I wouldn't say you're not a woman just because I don't like how you look or because you are infertile or have a disability. We are all women.

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/01/2018 19:42

@Glitched you can say it as much as you like, but to persuade people who don't agree, it might be an idea to explain how transwomen are women. To define what a woman is, and how transwomen are women as a result.

TeenTimesTwo · 23/01/2018 19:43

So what does it feel like to be a woman?
How can someone 'know' they are a woman without referring to biology?

And surely what has kept women oppressed over generations has been due to their biology and not how they feel inside?

Perhaps we should roll back 10 years, and stop using this word gender when we mean sex? Women need sex segregated spaces, not gender segregated. The two sexes need to be treated equally in law, etc.

BeyondWW · 23/01/2018 19:43

Okay, I've had this stuck in my head for about half hour now so it's only fair to share...

Vicxy · 23/01/2018 19:43

Obviously posted that by mistake when just reading through the thread. My MN is posting all over the shop, keeps posting before I finish posts that I actually mean to make, it apparently has now decided to post random dots also Confused

Since I posted here now anyway I guess I want clarification as to what

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here.

means tbh. I am not anti-trans. And supporting trans people does not mean you must support self-ID, indeed self-ID is actually detrimental to transsexual people. I would actually say that saying 'transwomen are women' rather than 'transwomen are transwomen' is transphobic, as denying the trans part of who they are is basically saying trans in itself is something to be ashamed of. Which it is not.

Ereshkigal · 23/01/2018 19:43

I've genuinely never heard a clever pro trans argument in my life. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Original poster
100lbtolose · 23/01/2018 19:45

@glitched your responses make me happy!

OP posts:
Battleax · 23/01/2018 19:45

This thread seems to consist of reasoned argument from gender critical feminists coupled with the occasional intervention from the pro trans contingent telling each other how much they like and agree with each other.
That’s sweet - daft people need friends too after all. But I wonder why they think it’s at all persuasive for the rest of us?

GrinGrinGrin

Glitched · 23/01/2018 19:46

Just because you don't know what it feels like to be a woman without refering to your genitals doesn't mean we all do. I would know I'm a woman regardless of my body parts.

What if, despite what you all believe, Trans woman are actually women and you're all casually dismissing them and throwing them under a bus. How tragic is That!