Trans friendly thread!

[100lbtolose]

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

Joy, maybe the religion board would be better?

*I feel my posts are not entirely clear in how they are coming across, I may draw a line under my idea to self identify grini

I did wonder if you'd be namejacked. I had to AS

Why won't any of the oh so vocal trans allies on this thread answer any of the sensible questions??

If you are so sure you are right, why not engage in debate?

Why the snidey remarks and jumping in and out?

Nobody has been anything but polite, but you won't engage...Why???

I like your list Dodo. It would be nice to know what those who are happy to say "transwomen are women" mean by this statement. Where on the spectrum (tada, a spectrum, that's trendy) from 1 to 8 do they fit in their viewpoint?

From the article "Why Transphobia is a Feminist Issue" linked above:

"This is a feminist issue on two levels. First, like racism and homophobia, transphobia grows out of and helps perpetuate the same patriarchal ideology that dictates women’s subordination as second-class citizens."

I don't agree with this. I don't think that male transgender people experience transphobia because they are seen as women, I think it's because they are men who are 'presenting' in a way that is not usually associated with men. I would say that it's more like homophobia than misogyny.

"Second, transphobia disproportionately harms women."

I don't agree that this is true either, given that most transgender people are male, not female. In fact, females who identify as transgender are barely mentioned anywhere. However, the primogeniture exemption could prove that TIMs have more rights than TIFs so I suppose I can see the argument that transphobia does disproportionately harm women.

"The history of feminism tells us that women know all too well what it’s like to not be seen, heard or treated with fairness and respect."

I don't see how this means that transphobia is a feminist issue, just because men treat women like shit too. Men can treat gay men like shit too, but that doesn't mean that the treatment of gay men by other men is a feminist issue.

Transphobia aimed at females who identify as transgender could be classed as a feminist issue, as they are females, but somehow I'm not sure that's what the article means.

All that article proves is that transphobia is an issue. But it doesn't prove that it's a feminist issue.

@joystir59 just because currently MNHQ have named the board LGBT parents and LGBT children, so it's their classification. If there was a separate Transgender section then I'd have suggested that.

I think to be an ally you have to swear a pledge of slipperiness and evasion.

This thread is just begging for some controversy.

Another question for anyone on the pro side to answer.

How do you imagine self-identifying working when it comes to access to hormonal therapy or surgery? Or any therapy around these things?
Do you want boots to start giving the drugs OTC?
Can a person just rock up at their local nhs hospital and demand to be put on waiting lists?
Or will it all go through GPs who are already overworked?
Or is the plan to do it through a gender specialist like now, except the difference is...what exactly?

Sorry, that turned into more than one question

I'm going to need my bingo card cos I'm pretty sure I've got a full house here

Good good, wouldn't want to disappoint!

I think "I need my bingo card etc.." probably features on quite a few of those 'argument by way of bingo card' things...

SwerfyTerfy

That is a stunning, moving post.

If are still here, I would like to donate to a cause of your choosing.

Just tell me the name.

Your post deserves to be published.

I feel humbled by it. Sitting here pontificating on the Internet, whilst you are at the coalface.

My only defence is that what you do will become harder and harder if men are considered women and self identification is ratified.

For fuck's sake, your post demonstrates how women have it hard enough.

Thanks, hairy (though I think, looking at it, that my inner confusion might mean that some of them are saying the same thing)

@somerandombird thank you for reply! It's brill that there are a few more pro-trans MNers that it seemed to me before. I hope this thread has given trans MNers a bit of hope that allies are around even if massively out numbered!!

I'm all for trans rights

@100lbtolose

Excellent. What rights do Trans people want that they currently do not already have?

100lbtolose glad you're still popping on to your thread. Can you try to answer some of the questions please?

@battlecuntgalactica you're fighting the good fight

I used to be unquestioningly pro-trans. Why wouldn't I be? It's just people trying to get by.

Until I realised that too many trans women have a deep-seated hatred of women.

Now - I'm happy for trans women to live their life, but I'm pretty unhappy with the agenda that goes along with it.

I think it's a real, real concern.

Trans women expect women to be all happiness and light, while absolutely loathing us.

How does that work?

I hope this thread has given trans MNers a bit of hope that allies are around even if massively out numbered!!

Allies? Outnumbered?

WTAF?

My guess is the OP is a puppeteer.

SwerfyTerfy Thank God for women like you. Thank you.

Even the most ardent 'transwomen are actual real bio women' delusionist couldn't fail to be moved by what Swerfy wrote, surely? Could a person really not read that post and understand that female biology exists and matters?

Datun

www.madre.org

This is a truly amazing organisation that supports women globally (victims of war, sexual violence and extreme poverty at the forefront) I would certainly recommend donating to them if you would like to (minimum donation $10 which IIRC is about £6, hope that's alright).

Don't feel bad for not doing "enough" we all do what we can... the risks I take aren't risks that everyone can take or would want to (and I really don't blame them, it's mentally tough).

Discussion makes progress, it's where everything starts. Protests, reforms, changing beliefs... it all starts with a discussion. So no ones ever just pontificating on the internet. Don't feel like you aren't doing enough

Thank you, though.

@100lbtolose have you actually read any of the posts on this thread? Have you read SwerfyTerfy's post about her work with women? Have you bothered to educate yourself about women's concerns, or just chosen to ignore them? Or do you disagree with the concerns in which case I am genuinely interested as to why you disagree.

But tbh, whilst you come on here and just plop empty posts that say nothing of any meaning, I don't have any respect for what you have to say. Change my mind.

To be clear, I don't hate or fear transwomen. I enthusiastically support their right to dignity and protection. However I cannot support anything which diminishes the rights of women, which I believe the current trend towards 'transwomen are women' is doing.