Wrong side of history

[LyraPotter]

Here is something I know to be true: those campaigning against trans rights will fail. Your money will be raised and spent and wasted. Your legal challenges will not succeed. Your relentless attempts to do injustice will fail. You are on the wrong side of history. Your children will grow up knowing better than you. You cannot stop progress. Your efforts are in vain.

And every time I'm proven right - every time a court judgment goes against you and every time a law protecting trans men and women is passed and every time equality is further enshrined in the laws of this country I am going to return to this thread for the pure and petty purpose of telling you I TOLD YOU SO.

A standing ovation Donkey, if you please, ladies!

Lyra, I think you just got served kiddo.

Oh dear, is a transactivist upset?

Oh dear, is a transactivist upset

The false bravado is quite apparent isn't it

@LyraPotter

WE ARE NOT CAMPAIGNING AGAINST TRANS RIGHTS .

WE ARE CAMPAIGNING FOR WOMEN’S RIGHTS .

rights to privacy , safety , and the right to determine who inhabits our naked space , who we associate with , who nurses us in our vulnerability .
Who
When
Where
If
Ever

If you object to any of that , then you’re a - putting it nicely - deeply shabby human being .

END
OF
STORY

Wow and TRAs are claiming representation of women in politics is a frivolous waste money that could be better spent elsewhere! Thanks for the info.

Argghh sorry wrong thread!

Donkey

But to OP
Cool story Bro. sums it up

It is very arrogant to assume that you can decide now how history will judge us in the future
The future may be a far right nightmare who we would want to judge us badly
I think there will a shit storm when children grow up sterile and unable to have any sexual feelings
I don't know how anyone could look at Jazz Jennings and see the poor child as a success. The whole thing is superficial. Jazz calls herself a princess. How will she feel when she ages and her looks deteriorate. All her life has been spent on looks. No depth to her dreams

Lyra, you may well be correct. Women may well lose every single right we’ve fought for, but it won’t be those of us who have spent years fighting for women’s rights who will be “on the wrong side of history” then, kitten.

And my hat will now be permanently tipped to Donkey a bloody amazing post.

If it's all in vain and so clear cut that you are in the right why are you so bothered? The lady doth protest too much, methinks

I find it telling that people like Lyra see women defending women's rights and reading it as anti-trans, almost like they know that TIM's aren't women - and that the rights they are clamouring for are at the expense of women.

Why can society have a third category with their own rights movement, experiences and existence that doesn’t impinge on others? Why is that seen as such a bad thing? Why not male, female, trans?

For a long time I supported trans women as being “real” women for want of a better word, but that was because my personal experience of them. Transwomen were women who wanted to exist quietly out of the public eye and not to impinge upon the lives and existence or rights of others. Maybe I only know transwomen who are well aware they’re not natal women but knowing a lot of transwomen from years before transtrenders existed, this seemed to be the general way of thinking.

I also come from a ‘scene’ where gender stereotypes were irrelevant and not once in my thirty years of being involved with that scene or working in it did anyone participating want to encroach on, restrict or deny the rights of others. Males were aware of being male bodied, females were aware of being female bodied and the rest was clothing &make up or lack thereof. (I know that’s simplistic but I’m waffling already)

I feel differently now as these once quiet, supportive and friendly ‘scenes’ have become loud, angry and aggressive. Stereotypes seem to have become definitions and everything seems aimed at eroding the rights of women. It seems no longer acceptable that anything goes but we have to label ourselves and as long as we’re on “the right side” of the labelling hierarchy to hell with whomever that damages.

I don’t understand in times where binary is said not to exist, men and transwomen (x-men?) are fighting to erode the meaning of women and as a result the rights of women... and yet there is no parallel movement towards eroding men’s rights or forcing them to accept the new way. This can’t be right. How can that be the right side of history in a so called equal society?

It may well be that I’m on the wrong side of history and I do hope that trans people find an acceptance in society and a peace within themselves but I hope they do so under the trans umbrella. I hope that they open up a third way that doesn’t erode women’s rights or female experience and especially our existence.

I certainly wouldn’t want to be saying I TOLD YOU SO to either women or trans at the end of this because no good can come from harbouring that kind of anger but if I am forced to side with one group and show my anger then I side with women. If it means I am on the wrong side of history so be it. If it means I am on the losing team, then why change the habit of a lifetime? It won’t stop me fighting for women’s rights and if asked to fight for trans rights that don’t erode the rights of others (as that isn’t equality) then i’ll do that too.

I know it’s muddled up. My brain is muddled up now. It’s a bloody confusing place to be.

First they ignore you,
then they laugh at you,
then they fight you and then you win.

To coin a phrase ‘you ain’t no sister, bruv’. I might get that on a t-shirt.

I assume this was a shit-grenade, designed to distract from more important things. I won't forget to be a feminist just because you said "look over there". 👉

Honestly, apart from the fact that 50 of you have taken the time to tell me how unimportant you think my point is, the funniest thing to me is that you all think £12K in fundraising will get you anywhere close to a legal challenge. I'm actually hoping to see that total rise, because the more TERF money that gets wasted the happier I am. But it's just delicious to watch you all wriggle with excitement about a sum of money which you'll soon realise isn't enough to get you within 100 yards of a courtroom door.

If you're right surely the legal challenge will fail and you'll be justified. Shouldn't you be donating?

I'd rather be on the wrong side of history than just plain old wrong :)

Oh Lyra, I’m watching the worlds slowest kids eat their tea. I’m not short of time.

Of course the legal challenge will fail. Let's all reconvene on this thread when it does, I can't tell you how much I'll enjoy that.

Honestly, apart from the fact that 50 of you have taken the time to tell me how unimportant you think my point is, the funniest thing to me is that you all think £12K in fundraising will get you anywhere close to a legal challenge. I'm actually hoping to see that total rise, because the more TERF money that gets wasted the happier I am. But it's just delicious to watch you all wriggle with excitement about a sum of money which you'll soon realise isn't enough to get you within 100 yards of a courtroom door

If you believed that then you wouldn't be bothered. And you're not bothered. Definitely not. No sireee.

When did I say I wasn't bothered? Of course I'm bothered. I also happen to think racists are on the wrong side of history and will eventually be condemned by all but that doesn't mean I'm happy just to sit and twiddle my thumbs about it now

You usually expect better of lawyers. Maybe not.

And perhaps if you bothered your handmaidenly arse to read the responses you’d have formulated a better one yourself, chickadee.

The narcissistic rage is strong in this one...