First openly transgender woman in British Vogue Celebrating 100 years since women have been given the vote

[speakout]

"Look how far we have come" says Paris Lees in a feature celebrating 100 years since women have had the right to vote in the UK.

Em except - your sex have always had the right to vote.

Or am I missing something?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42572561

Only 40% of women were given the vote in 1918. I wonder if Lees knows or cares that women had to wait until 1928 for equal suffrage.

YY thehairthebod I am also shocked at how angry this has made me. I keep thinking of my grandmothers, who came of age in that period before 1928. They watched their brothers vote at 21 and believed that they would have to wait until 30 to do the same. If they met the additional property restrictions.

Stella Creasey should be ashamed of herself. Not the time or place.

"But most of them don’t look like women".

See what I mean? What does a woman 'look like'?

Women have facial hair. (Sometimes because of PCOS, sometimes because they have facial hair). Women go bald. (Sometimes its because of illness, such as something to do with the immune system, sometimes stress, sometimes something else). Women are muscular - and others are not. They are tall, fat, short, 'masculine looking', 'feminine' looking: think of the difference physically between Gwendoline Christie and Emilia Clarke (GoT actors).

And that is before we even consider the fact that what is considered 'womanly' is entirely dominated by white/western standards.

Quentin - "What we are doing is using examples like Danielle Muscato to highlight how ridiculous ..."

So the very patriarchal norms you reject for yourself, you are happy to apply to others. I know many cis women who look like Danielle Muscato (reasons for which vary). Their looks are judged by that standard - although I appreciate that very often trans exclusionary feminism entirely fails to recognise the number of cis women their praxis throws under the proverbial bus.

It is not enough to simply reject the patriarchal norms - we also have to recognise how much we have already internalised as well, and how much of our thinking is shaped by it, however unconsciously.

#peakALunarExplorer

it's a distraction. I don't care if FTM transitioning transwomen can ''pass' (though I understand why they care). As a woman, with facial hair, acne, weight issues and a whole ton of other shit that is quite normal, I would prefer not to have transwomen propping up stupid stereotypes about what makes a woman at an awards ceremony for WOMEN.

I know many cis women who look like Danielle Muscato (reasons for which vary).
Of course you do. The world is full of women who look just like short fat bearded men with male pattern baldness

luner no-one on here wants to apply patriarchal beauty standards to women. Being a woman is not about what you look like. It's about being an adult human female.
A trans woman is not a woman, no matter what she looks like.
If she passes she will be treated as a woman but she still isn't a woman.

How disingenous, Luner. Yes, women all look very different. We are fat, old, short, tall, fat, thin, short haired, long haired. We can still tell when a man is pretending to be one of us, though.

And that is before we even consider the fact that what is considered 'womanly' is entirely dominated by white/western standards.
Are you implying that black/non-western women are manly? Because that is a very hackneyed racist trope.

The suffragettes would have been appalled by the way men have colonised womanhood in 2018.

YY. What a fucking mockery.

I also don't believe that you know many bald women with full beards ALunerExplorer. I'm sick of being told to believe the unbelievable regarding all of this. We're not idiots.

The thing with Paris going on about being 'pretty' enough to be accepted is nothing to do with whether or not transwomen 'pass' and everything to do with her misogynistic view that women are there for decoration and to be 'eye fucked' in the street. She was happy to be on the receiving end of harassment because it validated her place as a 'sexy' object, which in her eyes is obviously what 'woman' means.

I still can't believe that someone who wrote that abhorrent article is being lauded as a modern day suffragette. I feel like I am in a weird parallel universe or something!

also don't believe that you know many bald women with full beards ALunerExplorer.

Neither do I. #peakalunerexplorer indeed.

Me too thehairthebod. It's all happening so frighteningly quickly, it feels like a bad nightmare. Like the Handmaid's Tale. And so few women willing to speak up.

I still can't believe that someone who wrote that abhorrent article is being lauded as a modern day suffragette. I feel like I am in a weird parallel universe or something!

The media is blatantly trolling women. It's all such a laugh.

The only ones here who apply patriarchal standards to women are trans women and by doing so they reinforce those standards to to the detriment of women.

working where I do is hell. People should be speaking up and no one is. Academia is not challenging or being allowed to challenge any of this very much.

No.

I am stating that our 'perceptions' of what is womanly, are white and western-centric.

Its why Serena Williams is accused of 'really being a man' by people who are racist. (And transphobic). Ditto for Michelle Obama.

And yes, I do know cis women who look Danielle Muscado. If you meant what you said that being a woman is nothing to do with what you look like, why the sarcasm?

We don't combat toxic masculinity by practising it.

Thank you!

I shall be back with some more #peakALunerExplorer thoughts soon. Have a good day.

There is no need to be offensive here, Lunar.

shame no one told Paris that isn't it @Luner?

it's a distraction. I don't care if FTM transitioning transwomen can ''pass' (though I understand why they care). As a woman, with facial hair, acne, weight issues and a whole ton of other shit that is quite normal, I would prefer not to have transwomen propping up stupid stereotypes about what makes a woman at an awards ceremony for WOMEN.

This. In. Spades. It's stereotypes that have contributed to this mess.

I ventured onto the British Vogue twitter page. A woman commented under a tweet referring to this article and asked why no disabled women are included in the feature.

It's a good point. They won't include disabled women in their feature but are more than happy to include a transwoman.

Fucking ridiculous.

Does it really surprise anyone? On the week of the anniversary of 'some' women' right to vote, we've already got a bloke in Big Brother' pushing hugs and other physical contact onto women.

If you meant what you said that being a woman is nothing to do with what you look like, why the sarcasm?
Because you are talking rubbish to try to derail us from the topic at hand and get us to start talking about womanhood in terms of acceptable femininity in terms of looks rather than as a biological reality. I see what you are doing and I find the desperation amusing.

Here is a public example of women like her I know - Harnaam Kaur: www.theguardian.com/fashion/2016/sep/13/lady-with-a-beard-if-youve-got-it-rock-it-guinness-world-records

Ok I thought I was at peak luner but I've just sailed past it.
Harnaam Kaur looks nothing like Danielle Muscato. Harnaam Kaur does not look like a man (ably demonstrated by the picture of her next to her brother).
Stop trying to use a brave woman with a medical condition to push your agenda. I really hope you don't know Harnaam in real life. I'm embarrassed for you.

Yes Lunar, women like her are really common, that's why she in the Guinness book of records. FFS. 😒