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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Woman requests a female nurse. She gets a transwoman instead.

137 replies

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 31/12/2017 02:55

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/the-female-nhs-nurse-i-asked-for-came-with-stubble-83rq9p0gg

There's a thread about this on AIBU and the usual cries of "transphobic bigots!" are out in full force.

I knew this would happen eventually. We predicted that sex and gender ID would clash like this but we were shot down and told it would never happen. Yet here we are.

I'm just angry that people thought this was acceptable. Who in their right mind could hear "I would like to see a female nurse please" and honestly think that a man who thinks he is/wants to be a woman was acceptable?

OP posts:
Situp · 31/12/2017 14:57

I personally wouldn't have a problem with who does my smear but I totally believe that a woman should have total control over who has contact with her genitals whatever the circumstances.

For me, it is yet another circumstance where a woman's control over her body is compromised.

When I was a student I worked as a chaperone in a gynocological unit, sitting in with male gynochologists examining patients. Will this be the case if a gynocologist decides to identify as female?

SophoclesTheFox · 31/12/2017 14:58

But I thought that This Will Never Happen? When this has been raised as a concern, we've been told that it won't happen and to stop getting all hysterical and giddy about imaginary trans women and intimate care situations.

And here it is.

I predict that the response from transactivists and their supporters will be:

  1. Didn't happen. Fake news
  2. This person is Not Really Trans
  3. Tumbleweed.

Though maybe, just maybe, it will peak trans another few like Maid's husband.

BlackBetha · 31/12/2017 15:10

Yes, this is exactly the kind of scenario we were told would never happen. Along with rapists 'identifying' their way into women's prisons. Males winning women's sports events and awards, schoolgirls forced to change for PE in front of boys. Women being shoved and punched for having an opinion, by men who then claim to be the real victims.

Then it happens, and we're told it didn't really happen, then that it doesn't matter, or that it doesn't mean anything, or that we should stop whining about it... and another boundary has been destroyed, another abuse normalised. They know exactly what they're doing, and it looks a whole lot like classic abuser tactics.

notafish · 31/12/2017 15:55

Has anyone had a smear test done by a male nurse before? I've always assumed the practitioner would be female. I've never thought to request a female. I have no history of trauma which warrants me requesting a female but I shouldn't have to. Smears are an intimate procedure, in my experience carried out behind a closed door with just me and the nurse in the room. For that reason I will always want a female hcp. For emergencies or surgery- I've had an emergency ERPC - I don't care as it's not just one hcp and me.

I wonder how many males across the UK are employed to do smear tests.

IrkThePurist · 31/12/2017 16:12

I have a history of severe trauma and PTSD, and my GP does my smear. I dont even have to ask, she just sorts it. At the clinic all the nurses who do smears are female. I wouldnt mind male staff dfor something like a vaccine, but there's no way I could have male staff for a gyne exam. Its not a choice.

People who think its a choice are immensely privileged. Its no more a choice than choosing to not react to a car backfire when you have shell shock.

Bellamuerte · 31/12/2017 18:24

Personally it doesn't bother me whether my qualified medical practitioner is male or female. I've had numerous tests and gynaecological surgery performed excellently by both male and female practitioners. But I absolutely defend the right for a person to specify the sex of the person who treats them if they wish to do so, whether for personal or religious reasons. The patient's wishes should outweigh the medical practitioner's right to be regarded as female.

CosmicCanary · 31/12/2017 18:30

I had to leave and hide the other thread.
Can I stay here for a bit as I would like to discuss and read the content Smile

Xenophile · 31/12/2017 18:35

cafeaulaitpourvous

Ok - I smell bullshit - and I am TERFY mc TERF!

It's not bullshit I'm afraid, I know the woman involved and I believe she is telling the absolute truth. It's on the basis of this that I am having to look at alternatives for getting my PAP smear done than at my GP. I am finally undergoing intensive therapy for CPTSS after abuse and the surgery cannot guarantee that I will be able to have a female HCP for a smear. I'm a few years overdue now as well, but there is no way on this earth that I can have a man near me in that way, possibly ever again.

IrkThePurist · 31/12/2017 18:38

CosmicCanary [tea]

IrkThePurist · 31/12/2017 18:39

CosmicCanary Blush

CosmicCanary · 31/12/2017 18:41

Its NYE Irk Wine if you please Grin

IrkThePurist · 31/12/2017 18:42

I'm so annoyed I forgot - Cheers! Grin

roomsonfire · 31/12/2017 18:53

I was sexually assaulted by a male GP as a child (He put his hands in my knickers to 'check my bladder' when I had a UTI)

as a result I do not go to a male GP for anything related to my genitals or smear tests etc. or near my breasts.

A male GP is OK to sort my asthma meds. Hes not OK to check my lungs for sign of infection because I'm not having a man go near me like that.

My GP surgery is fantastic about this and understands why I have requested this given my childhood assault. IF there is absolutely no way I can get a female GP then the GPs arrange for a female nurse to come in with me or occasionally I take a friend.

this situation would leave me beyond furious. There is a reason I avoid male health practitioners for intimate exams and to present me with a TIM would mean I wouldn't access important healthcare.

PricklyBall · 31/12/2017 19:02

Cosmic - Wine Flowers

That other thread... The people on it displaying a complete lack of empathy towards women's needs for privacy are terrifying. They honestly come across as lacking something crucial in the empathy department. To the extent where I wouldn't like to be alone with them.

CosmicCanary · 31/12/2017 19:18

Prikley i can only assume some people are either so damaged or so vile they lack the empathy to understand.

That poster was starting to upset and anger me so I thought it best to hide the thread.
Such a shame as the thread was really supportive and interesting.

SparklyUnicornTractors · 31/12/2017 19:28

They honestly come across as lacking something crucial in the empathy department.

Yes, those views have been enlightening. I take the wider view that watching these discussions happening and seeing the POV and attitudes put forward on either side have and will continue to let people easily reach conclusions on whether this is truly 'progressive' or right. All it needs is enough light shone on it.

Interesting looking at the comments below the Times article, am I imagining it or are the few critical voices increasingly just using the reproachful 'you're all such meanies' line?

BelaLugosisShed · 31/12/2017 19:32

It’s not just smears, Mammograms are very intimate too, I find mammograms worse than smears, certainly more uncomfortable, no way would I want a man positioning my breasts in the machine, it’s horrible.
Are women protected by the Equality act exclusions in medical situations?

AlbertandVicky · 31/12/2017 19:38

Trust policy is to consider seriously all requests for clinicians of a particular gender.”

Why on earth is the NHS referring to clinicians' gender? It's sex fgs.

MinniesAndMickeysNeedCounting · 31/12/2017 20:28

It's been very interesting reading this thread.
Could someone please tell me what TIM and FIM stand for please, I've googled for the acronyms but can't find anything.

cafeaulaitpourvous · 31/12/2017 20:31

@Xenophile

If that is the case the I take back my obviously crap bullshittometer ( I amso sorry)

If you see this lady tell her we have her back xxxxxx ( I know I know we don't do kisses but fuck it) xxxx

IrkThePurist · 31/12/2017 20:50

MinniesAndMickeysNeedCounting
TIF and TIM stand for 'trans identifying female' and 'trans identifying male'. They are not used as an insult.

StylishDuck · 31/12/2017 20:53

I went to OOH with a problem that required examination of my genital area. It was a maleGP who I happened to see. He offered first to have a female GP step in for the examination or if I was happy with a chaperone he would do it. I was happy for him to do it with a chaperone present. I did however appreciate that he asked what I was comfortable with. I have no problem with a male HCP examining me - they see this sort of thing every day. I would wholeheartedly object to a man arguing he was a woman and was therefore entitled to carry out the examination with no regard as to whether I was comfortable with that. In fact any female nurse who has carried out a smear test for me has always ensured I'm comfortable with what she's doing. It's a professional courtesy I expect from any HCP.

BlackBetha · 31/12/2017 21:12

Exactly, the key thing is consent, and respect for the patient's comfort and dignity. Basic stuff (but important) in healthcare. Regardless of whether the practitioner is trans, or male, or whatever, they should not put their personal feelings ahead of behaving professionally.

MinniesAndMickeysNeedCounting · 31/12/2017 21:33

Thanks IrkThePurist, i hadn't thought it a insult, i just couldn't work it out anyway that it was making sense for me.

Xenophile · 31/12/2017 22:06

Cafeaulaitpourvous

You were absolutely right to be cynical, I will indeed pass your good wishes on to her.