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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman requests a female nurse. She gets a transwoman instead.

137 replies

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 31/12/2017 02:55

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/the-female-nhs-nurse-i-asked-for-came-with-stubble-83rq9p0gg

There's a thread about this on AIBU and the usual cries of "transphobic bigots!" are out in full force.

I knew this would happen eventually. We predicted that sex and gender ID would clash like this but we were shot down and told it would never happen. Yet here we are.

I'm just angry that people thought this was acceptable. Who in their right mind could hear "I would like to see a female nurse please" and honestly think that a man who thinks he is/wants to be a woman was acceptable?

OP posts:
badbadhusky · 03/01/2018 00:10

Thank you everyone on this threadfor such a thorough-going discussion about medical consent, with special mention for RedToothbrush. Flowers

I refuse to let the 1990s be as good as it ever got for women.

I could also not let this sentiment pass without a heartfelt “AMEN!” Things seem to be getting worse and I want my niece to have the same opprtunities and protection I enjoyed at her age, same for all women and girls.

RogueBiscuit · 03/01/2018 00:30

That's interesting Red,thanks for posting that.

I posted on the other thread in aibu about being pressurized into a smear test that I didn't want. The nurse went off to get a doctor to pressure me further. When that failed they got a third doctor which meant I was in a tiny room with 3 hcps. At no point did they mention the risk of unnecessary follow up treatment. It was horrible and I felt really pressured. I was repeatedly asked why I was refusing. Actually I wish I had complained now. They phoned me several times after this to question me further about it.

Similar has happened when I have refused internal examinations, or having my waters broke in labour. They've simply gone off to get a more senior midwife. I've seen this happen also on one born any minuite.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 03/01/2018 00:31

Amen to all the women who post here.

Seriously, thank you. Sometimes I get down about it and other women bring me up. I can do the same for others on other days.

It's so inspiring. Thank you x

RedToothBrush · 03/01/2018 00:36

Women can request a female doctor instead of a male one on the basis that they perceive men to be a threat.

This is backed up by the pattern of sexual violence against women.

This is a theoretical threat and based on perception not an actual threat that can be qualified against an individual. Even if the trust is confident that the male doctor is no threat to the patient (which is every doctor they employ otherwise they shouldn't be employed as a doctor!)

If the pattern of offending in this way is the same for transwomen as it is for men then the same therotectically applies. The risk is the same.

Now insurers and medics deal in assessing risk. If they deem one to be a legitimate risk, how can they deem the other not to be a legitimate risk?

And the point is that the medical profession recognises that the threat of a theoretical situation is valid in terms of how it can be psychologically damaging to put someone knowingly into this situation even if they confident they genuinely do pose no threat at any point.

At this point you should be asking why transcult are so desparate to be included in the crime figures for women? Doing so produces a fudge with data and figures which underplays and misleads the public about the potential risk. But that same risk still applies in reality and this pattern of behaviour is currently known about. Deliberately changing how stats are compiled in this way, when we know this information now, and there is a danger this under plays risk to patients, is a dangerous game to play if your job is essentially half about recognising risk, assessing statistics and informing patients of that risk so they can make an informed decision...

thebewilderness · 03/01/2018 01:13

The NHS practice manager would have to prove that carrying out a smear test is a reasonable exception to the rule that prohibits discrimination against transgender people.
That is incorrect. The relevant paragraph specifies transexual, not transgender. This was not an interaction with a transexual person. It was a confrontation engineered by a trans identified male. There are no employment rules that say his right to examine her body trumps her right to say no.

Ereshkigal · 03/01/2018 01:39

I wonder if that is why he used the word "transsexual". Because that is the word in the EA, but it's not a word self identified male presenting transgender people tend to use. It's not enough sadly though. The definition of "transsexual" as a person having the "gender reassignment" protected characteristic is so woolly and vague it includes anyone.

thebewilderness · 03/01/2018 03:04

One of the major hurdles to writing legislation and policy on the issue is the definitions. They are not agreed upon by medical professionals or trans advocates.

PocketCoffeeEspresso · 03/01/2018 08:24

Similar has happened when I have refused internal examinations, or having my waters broke in labour. They've simply gone off to get a more senior midwife. I've seen this happen also on one born any minuite.

Exactly this - if I'd had my first baby on the NHS (I was abroad) things would have gone very differently, judging by how it went with my second baby (identical labour, but without being induced) - my first I was lucky that they treated me as an adult. The NHS however - more bullies than not, and had I not had my first experience (and heard my sisters experiences), and known that I could stand firm on various things (one or two were still ignored). At one point I was so angry with the midwife trying to make me have an epidural and lie nice and still on the bed for her so she could get a continuous trace (instead of leaning against the bed sitting on a ball - and willing to hold the damn monitor in place when another, actually nice midwife explained why), that I gave her a mini lecture in body autonomy and how she couldn't actually force me to do anything, and to stop lying about that.

ShotsFired · 03/01/2018 08:44

As a result of this thread/article, I am considering a letter to my GP practice to get their official stance on it. I don't think they even have a male nurse on the staff (all their staff are on the website, and I have also been round most of them personally!) but I think it would be an interesting exercise to see how they react when asked to formally document for posterity how they would treat patients who asked for a natal female (or male, I guess) HCP for any reason. They'll either have to say they will or won't oblige, right?

Will anyone join me in contacting their own GP for similar clarification?

irretating · 03/01/2018 10:08

@thebewilderness my mistake, I should have used the term transexual as the person had identified themselves as transexual.

If the changes to the GRA get pushed through, that distinction will be lost anyway.

SparklyUnicornTractors · 03/01/2018 13:49

Shots my GPs surgery take chaperones and access to female practitioners very seriously, despite being a heavily male doctor practice, as a very large proportion of its patients speak EAL, are of retirement age, are of Muslim faith and many have not long been in the UK. Many of the women in that population can't attend the surgery at all without an escort acting as a translator, often a male relative. The GPs are already very concerned that these women are supported to feel safe and welcomed at the surgery as they are worried about their health needs not being communicated well enough or met. I can't see the practice presenting them with a transwoman nurse for intimate procedures and thinking it would be positive for anyone involved.

On the other hand as one of the practice nurses dealing with the many ear infections, cuts, bruises, vaccinations, sprained ankles? Would be no problem at all.

Italiangreyhound · 06/01/2018 03:32

ShotsFired what a good idea. Thanks

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