Woman requests a female nurse. She gets a transwoman instead.

[PleaseDontGoadTheToad]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/the-female-nhs-nurse-i-asked-for-came-with-stubble-83rq9p0gg

There's a thread about this on AIBU and the usual cries of "transphobic bigots!" are out in full force.

I knew this would happen eventually. We predicted that sex and gender ID would clash like this but we were shot down and told it would never happen. Yet here we are.

I'm just angry that people thought this was acceptable. Who in their right mind could hear "I would like to see a female nurse please" and honestly think that a man who thinks he is/wants to be a woman was acceptable?

The problem is not that the person wasn't trained.

The problem is that the patient requested a female HCP and was given a TIM (and male-presenting) HCP. And when the patient said that she had specifically requested a female, the TIM HCP was rude about it, made her feel like a bigot and asserted that they, as a TIM, were female.

On the other thread my trauma of rape is now whinning and I should shut up.

It is just to depressing at times.

CosmicCanary

Bloody awful. I seriously cannot understand how people type those words. Ignorance? Lack of imagination? Or plain old misogyny. Women simply don't matter.

I tend to think that the people who opinine in that way have a very low self-esteem themselves.

I think its all of that Datun

Its a belief that females should be grateful for anything and everything no matter what it is.
Females are not seen as human beings by so many.

Cosmic, I am really sorry that people are being dismissive of your feelings and trauma.

I haven’t read the other thread, but from what other people are saying the responses remind me of what I frequently see in my work. Children are referred to psychology services because teachers are concerned about their attention or impulse control (or something of that ilk) and when I go in and talk to them, warning bells are shrieking sexual abuse or severe neglect, but what the teachers are taking from the situation is ‘can’t focus’. They are often really shocked that they didn’t spot this when I point out all the clues- which they noticed enough to raise with me. Basically, they joined the dots to create a picture that was less disturbing.

People do this all the time, they defend against intolerable thoughts by focusing on less disturbing ones (serious case reviews such as that of Victoria Climbie evidence this time and time again).

I am not in any way excusing people’s behaviour but that is how I make sense of it. People can feel ‘good’ and ‘kind’ by offering support to people struggling with gender identity. Focusing on rape and vulnerability does not result in such positive feelings.

Focusing on rape and vulnerability does not result in such positive feelings.

Why do you think that is MsBeaujangles?

Is it fear? Are they worried about jumping to conclusions could tarnish someone unjustifiably?

Cosmic, I am really sorry that people are being dismissive of your feelings and trauma.

Sadly it happens alot.

The midwife I had when i was pregnant after the rape said I was being silly to request only female HCP.
She went in to great detail of the horrible medical things that could go wrong in my labour and my refusal of males could lead to my babies death.

My DH polietly asked her to leave and requested another midwife.
He then heard her bitching about me at the nurses station. She said I was not the only women to be raped and I needed to get over it as having sex and getting pregnant seemed to be ok for me.

Ffs CosmicCanary. That is truly awful. What is wrong with people.

Poor woman. I don't mind having a male midwife or a male nurse but the crucial point is that I consent to that. I don't want an AGP transwoman anywhere near me.

It was 13 years ago well nearly 14 now Datun

I had a problem free labour and discharged myself the next day as that midwife was back on shift and basically glared at me everytime she saw me.

I complained and it took nearly a year to get an apology. They made me feel like we were the ones being investigated. She retired during that year so other than a half arsed sorry from the hospital there was no real action.

Utterly appalling.

Legal battles ahead. Even if the law changes, I suspect a judge could still find the NHS negligent for causing psychological distress to a patient in a case like this.

The point here, is the gamble that women won't complain about a situation like this though. Women are conditioned not to complain. Changing the law will condition them not to complain in situations like this, even if there is a legal reason why they still could win, despite the law.

Would I trust a nurse or doctor or told me they were not male but were trans when I specifically requested a female nurse? No I would not. Not because they were trans but because of a breach of trust as far as I was concerned. I would consider my request to be for a particular concern: be it trauma or religion or something else and to ignore this request would be distressing.

This would damage my trust with the NHS as a whole.

This will endanger the lives of women. Its that simple. But trans lives and feelings are more important.

Well it definitely happened because the trust have apologised. I agree with greenshoots that the “admin error “ excuse is a lie - they didn’t send a chaperone for an intimate procedure so they considered him female. God knows how many women have been subjected to him

Datun. The over riding feeling that people are defended against is anxiety. Any of us could be raped, some of us already have and some of us dearly love people who have been raped. Even as I type this I experience intolerable feelings. Today those feelings are primarily sadness, another day it could be anger.

People have very strong psychological defence mechanisms that work outside of conscious awareness. These are usually functional and help us all cope with daily life without becoming neurotic. However, they can also be catastrophic, such as when professionals fail to spot massive risk.

When I was training I did a role play exercise whereby I was meeting, for the first time, a ‘mother’ whose child was terminally ill. During the exercise the ‘mother’ disclosed that the child had been conceived through rape. I completely missed this and was gob smacked when I watched the video back. I still find it shocking that I didn’t process this information and attend to it. Thank god it was a role play.

they didn’t send a chaperone for an intimate procedure so they considered him female

It doesn't matter what sex the HCP is, they should have a chaperone anyway when performing an intimate examination on a patient. It's to cover the HCP, so if the patient complains that something untoward happens, there's another witness who can give their account.

That's best practice though. I have had smears and examinations where there should have been a chaperone present, and wasn't.

This is absolutely disgusting.

Good grief. This needs stopping and soon.

Anxiety sometimes manifests as aggression because its a natural defensive mechanism.

Putting a HCP in a situation which makes a patient feel threatened, is a risk to the HCP as well as the patient in extreme circumstances.

This is well known. This isn't the fault of a patient but a natural response from someone who has an illness.

After a home visit which went badly wrong due to a total lack of sensitivity and a confrontational midwife, I made a complaint stressing this, which was upheld. Not only this they acknowledged that it was fair, constructive and was about protecting staff as well as patients.

I didn't get aggressive but stated that they were aware of the issue and their lack of sensitivity made me feel very threatened. I was extremely distressed and it damaged my trust with HCP (which was strangely enough one of the causes of anxiety in the first place).

If the same thing happening with another patient might have different more serious consequences. Which they agreed with.

They asked permission for my case to be used as a training example.

Proposed changes to the law could make anxiety based on trauma illegal - effectively criminalising victims and the sick.

After sexual violence, it took me several defaulted smear appointments to get in for mine. I only went in as I knew my GP and she was brilliant. I would have been horrified to have been met with a man, and then been made to feel I was unreasonable for being horrified.

I too am glad the Times is highlighting these issues.

I'm one of those thick-skinned women who couldn't give a stuff if the person with the speculum is a man or a woman. However, I'm also one of those thick-skinned women who isn't worried about being assertive.

So, sure as shit, I'm going to insist on a female HCP for anything intimate from now on. And complain like crazy if I get any push back. Since all this rests on women socialised to put up with things and not complain, I might as well use my thick-skinned ways on behalf of everyone else.

Well well.

My lefty liberal, feminist ally husband, who has to date bitterly rejected my concerns about the GRA and the TRA movement in general, who has called me a bigot with looks of horror in his eyes, has now hit #peaktrans.

I hope that there are others who have dismissed the valid concerns of females, who have accused us of fantasy regarding the implications of the GRA, are similarly reconsidering.

Trust policy is to consider seriously all requests for clinicians of a particular gender.”

Grrr. I don't give a stuff what they're wearing or how they do their hair or what colours/toys they like, I want someone of the biological sex I request. Transmen HCPs, yes that's absolutely fine thank you.

Good stuff Maid.

Good news Maid

The nurse “had an obviously male appearance . . . close-cropped hair, a male facial appearance and voice, large number of tattoos and facial stubble”, she said.

It mystifies me that people can read this and think anyone with an issue is transphobic. I don't give a shit what people wear or say they are, though I think boys particularly should be able to wear pink/makeup/whatever without that making them less male. But this nurse wasn't trans in any way other than a feeling. I feel like I'm still a size 10 until I look in a mirror... doesn't make it so.

The nurse “had an obviously male appearance . . . close-cropped hair, a male facial appearance and voice, large number of tattoos and facial stubble”, she said.

Logically, I don't see why transwomen should need to present in a feminine way. I have days where I want to wear trousers, no make up and not 'perform femininity'. Wear what you want, look like what you want. Whatever.

So I don't see the issue with this transwoman's short hair, tattoos and even the stubble, logically I suppose.

Whatever she looks like, the problem is that despite identifying as a woman, she remains biologically male.

And this patient requested a biological woman.

Even if she was wearing make up, a skirt and had no stubble I suspect the patient would still have felt uncomfortable.