Does anyone feel the need to reclaim femnism.....?

[BertrandRussell]

So many important issues just seem to be falling by the wayside. When did we last have any sort of discussion about reproductive rights in US? The Million Woman March-remember that? Weinstein and the follow up? FGM? The abortion debate in Ireland?

Yes. The recent attacks on the very foundation of women's rights - you aren't women any more - has pushed everything else aside.

How did the vote on funding DV refuges go? Does anyone know?
Why are we still paying tampon tax?
Whats happening with abortion rights in Northern Ireland?

Is there a fund to pay Helen Steel's court costs for her case against the Met, and why is she having to pay anything at all?
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/28/woman-deceived-by-police-spy-refuses-to-pay-met-legal-bill

It does feel like feminism has been derailed somewhat in the last year. Although rad fem groups I belong to do discuss and are active in other areas (like those mentioned above).

Yes Bertrand. However I also feel the urge to reclaim it from so many rad fems who are getting into bed with the Christian conservatives (Margaret Atwood's original fear behind Handmaid) and prioritising 'sex' issues (prostitution and porn) over other ones, whilst no longer thinking critically about marriage, domestic labour, etc. and keeping somewhat quieter about birth control and abortion. I feel some of us have been co opted by the misogynistic left and others by the misogynistic right.

"I feel some of us have been co opted by the misogynistic left and others by the misogynistic right."

I think that prostitution and pornography are incredibly important issues-up there with the others. Not in terms of morality, but in terms of the way women in general are perceived and the was sex workers are treated.

I never said they were not important issues.

Sorry-I didn't mean to suggest you did. But I understood you to say that they were "smoke screening" other issues which are more important. They are really high up the list for me-and I don't think I've been suborned by either right or left wing misogynists!

They are important for me too. What worries me is that (along with trans) they are tending to dominate radical feminism and I have been to a few (feminist) gatherings where right wing Christian women are front and centre and there has not been a lot of critical thinking about how we might differ in our responses to prostitution and porn and I've mentioned the importance of access to abortion and been met by a deafening silence ... So my original point was in agreement with you re the need to reclaim a more 'pure' (for want of a better word) feminism.

Yes I do. This board is awash with trans issues. It is almost impossible to discuss anything else

I think feminism is being reclaimed - from the antifeminists and handmaidens.

Recently on MN I am delighted to see actual sense being talked rather than the emotive self-negating bollocks that has blighted feminism for so long ie -

"Feminist women need to bend over backwards so hard to be inclusive, we exclude ourselves from the fight for women's rights and exclude women's rights from feminism."
Or
"Feminism should be fighting for women to have the agency and choice to promote and perpetuate the patriarchal oppression of women as a class"
Or
"Feminism is about reclaiming patriarchal oppression and the insults associated with it as an act of resistance and empowerment"

Etc etc.... i've found recent discussions a bit of a breather.

However it does seem timely to utilise this moment of good sense and valuing women to re-center women's actual issues again.

I'll just pipe up here to note that using gendered insults ('handmaidens'? really?) to describe a group of other women whose views you don't agree with, doesn't really serve any good purpose does it?

My DD is bi - she hears this a lot and I know how this grates on her.

If women behave like handmaidens why should they not be called out on it? It’s a gendered insult because it’s gendered behaviour. Being a feminist does not mean agreeing with all other women.

"If women behave like handmaidens why should they not be called out on it?"

What behaviour?

Calling a woman ''a piece of shit'' for wanting to discuss the GRA would be the example that comes to mind.

So you are objecting to the term "handmaiden" without knowing what it means?

I don't feel like that currently. For me, the idea that the very definition of 'woman' is at stake is an overriding concern. Without a clear definition of 'woman' it will be even more difficult to work towards women's rights and protections in other areas.

At this point I'll take support almost wherever it comes re. sex definitions. Even from people with whom I profoundly disagree on other topics.

Oh well, then lets all sling around some unpleasant names at each other, because that will certainly make everything better.

Excuse me if I feel a little confused, and point out that as a parent I have just stated that my daughter gets gendered insults thrown at her because of her sexuality, and (what I assume are other parents) are actually justifying that?

And to think I thought, as a middle aged disabled woman with a bit of spare time on her hands, I might find a little space for sisterly conversation.

It would seem, however, that would not be the case. I wouldn't go so far as to say I was disappointed - but I shall learn my lesson, and move on I think.

My stay was brief, but if bullying is okay in some peoples books around here, I really don't want to know.

"Excuse me if I feel a little confused, and point out that as a parent I have just stated that my daughter gets gendered insults thrown at her because of her sexuality, and (what I assume are other parents) are actually justifying that?"

No-and I'm not sure how you got there, to be honest. I was justifying the use of a particular gendered insult that describes a particular type of behaviour. Nothing more.

@ALunerExplorer why is your DD being called a handmaiden? Simply for being bi?

Well, no because you haven't quantified exactly what 'behaviour' you are referring to.

What 'behaviour' does my daughter display, to justify labelling her in that way?

ALunerExplorer

You asked for an example of when it would be acceptable to use the term 'handmaiden', and I said Imo, when someone who claims to be a feminist calls another woman 'a piece of shit'.

You've jumped from there to parents supporting people abusing your daughter.
Are you arguing in good faith?

"What 'behaviour' does my daughter display, to justify labelling her in that way?"
I don't understand. Have I inadvertently called your dd a handmaiden?

Are you?

When I said that my DD who is bi gets this world slung at her a lot - you immediately went to "Calling a woman ''a piece of shit'' for wanting to discuss the GRA would be the example that comes to mind."

Because I said my daughter had been called a handmaiden, you made that assumption.

Neither my faith, or my daughter, is what is at question here.

What are the circumstances in which your dd is called a handmaiden?

"If women behave like handmaidens why should they not be called out on it? It’s a gendered insult because it’s gendered behaviour. Being a feminist does not mean agreeing with all other women." (This was your response to me.)

So again, I ask you - exactly what 'behaviour' do you think my daughter would be being called out on, exactly?

I think we are talking at cross purposes. there was a well known case recently when a woman was called ''a piece of shit'' by someone who disagreed with her.
That example has nothing to do with your daughter.

I have no idea why your daughter is being called a handmaiden; no one here can possibly tell you. We dont know her or the people calling her that.