Does anyone feel the need to reclaim femnism.....?

[BertrandRussell]

So many important issues just seem to be falling by the wayside. When did we last have any sort of discussion about reproductive rights in US? The Million Woman March-remember that? Weinstein and the follow up? FGM? The abortion debate in Ireland?

As for sealioning - I think anyone who goes from not understanding what a handmaiden might be to talking about "feminist praxis" in consecutive posts has probably given their foreflipper credentials away. Sorry, Luner, but you have to admit that was a slip-up and a half!

I think the 'feminist praxis' malarky is a sign of having earned ones stripes sealioning and worse in intersectional/queer/pomo feminist fora no? An old hand I imagine.

I think that cake-baking sounds like a perfect sign-off to attend to one's other threads if you think MN is full of Kirsty Allsop types who will nod understandingly...

Oh another one is the compliments about the user name - I remember a certain obsolescent Parisian mango use to get many appreciative noises from the be-socked admirers,

I'm confused by some of these words. I need a dictionary...

guardian That's too clever for me!

I'm pretty sure more than one goady fucket poster has signed off with "peace out" too. But not on this thread.

I think the 'feminist praxis' malarky is a sign of having earned ones stripes sealioning and worse in intersectional/queer/pomo feminist fora no? An old hand I imagine.

Indeed! And I might well try and avoid using slurs such as handmaiden myself, but at least it's some straightforward, honest praxis!

Well, I skipped to the end of the thread to see if it had got back on track, and it seems not. Off to look and see if it has been re-started elsewhere...

All I'm saying... is that it is worth taking note when a username is complimented, and taking note of who pays the compliment....

The obsolescent Parisian mango would only make sense if you have been on FWR for eons.

I have been guardian but I have a brain like a sieve! Pm me?

I advocate for describing the behavior rather than trying to use labels that have different meanings to different women. Reduces confusion.

As far as the original question, I remember when the backlash began and insisted that feminism had to be all things to all people and therefore must an equality movement. White men, or course, turned out to be a bit more equal than anyone else. That was in the late seventies early eighties.
Male violence continues to be the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.

...it means a very specific sort of behaviour. Not just general disapproval

OP You say it means women who display misogynistic behaviour. PPs have said it applies to misogynistic women and those who reinforce and uphold the patriarchy.

What are the very specific behaviours that define "handmaiden"?

Disingenuousness is so tiresome.

What do you think, Dione? Any guesses from those definitions?

a woman who takes the patriarchal position with regards to a particular issue.
For example a woman who argued that men are also raped by women and report it less than women because of the stigma in a conversation about rape.
Or a woman who says she likes being catcalled, it's complimentary.

I gave a couple earlier dione

I am prepared to bet that everyone questioning the word “handmaiden” knows exactly what it means. It is a classic detailing technique. “I thought women were supposed to support each other” “Not very sisterly, is it?”
It promotes a strong reaction because it hits home. Simple as that.

What are the very specific behaviours that define "handmaiden"?

Strokes chin thoughtfully.

Oh, I don't know, Dione, how about women who take the time and trouble to go about derailing conversations in which women are discussing the inequality they face and which of various strands of feminism are best placed to combat it?

Cos that would only benefit men, right?

How about that specific behaviour?

If you want a good example of 'handmaiden' behaviour, look at the first entry in the Urban Dictionary for 'Feminism' and assume it was actually written by a woman.

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=feminism

''feminism
The biggest disgrace to my gender.

Feminism used to be about women getting the same rights as men, such as the right to vote and equal pay at work.
Now feminism is a movement full of women who seem to think that their ability to push a baby out of their vagina entitles them to bigger and better everything.
I am a young woman and I disagree with feminism.
It is pretty hypocritical to expect to be treated special because you are a female (such as tighter laws concerning rape or more leniancy if a woman becomes pregnant) yet they get upset when they aren't being treated exactly like a man. The feminists need to realize that women are not better than men. They are EQUAL. You don't see any laws that provide special treatment for men do you?

Example: Once I saw a feminist say that abortions should be legal AND be free. I am all for abortion rights, but demanding that it be free because your ass couldn't use the proper birth control before spreading your legs is absured.

And before you pull the rape card on me, keep in mind that if you go to the hospital after being raped, they give you medications to prevent pregnancy. I see no reason for free abortions.''

Bleugh.

Any thread about strip clubs, housework or Christmas preparations will provide many examples of the species too!

Not at all disingenuous. I have seen it on threads about name changing on marriage and shaving. A while back ago a FWR regular was called one by Julie Bindel for being married to a man and having children IIRC. Reading this thread it also includes regarding cat calling as complimentary and derailing threads. BTW I am not derailing anything.

I have asked what very specific behaviours make a woman a "handmaiden"? Surely it is not a difficult question to answer as the behaviours are so specific.

A handmaiden is a woman who colludes with, enables or excuses misogenyst behaviour.it’s not hard!

Bert, that is your definition. I find gendered insults like "handmaiden" deeply misogynistic, so how does that fit?

StonecoldDiva has used it about women who do wifework. A PP extended your definition to not just misogyny, but patriarchy? Does that mean that women who facilitate men are "handmaidens"?

Sex workers
SAHM/W
Women who shave/wax
Women who name change on marriage or give their DCs their father's name.
Het women.
Women who put others off feminism.
Those who want equal rights for fathers on maternity wards.
Those who like "ladies first" type attitudes.
Women who refer to others as "ladies" and "girls".
Those who disagree with quotas and women only shortlists.

Which of these behaviours make a woman a "handmaiden"? Is there an agreed list or definition you could link to?

It is not my definition. It is what the word means in this context. And it is a gendered insult because it is a type of behaviour that, by definition, only occurs in women.

Being a feminist does not mean agreeing with all other women, or excusing unacceptable behaviour in other women.