Does anyone feel the need to reclaim femnism.....?

[BertrandRussell]

So many important issues just seem to be falling by the wayside. When did we last have any sort of discussion about reproductive rights in US? The Million Woman March-remember that? Weinstein and the follow up? FGM? The abortion debate in Ireland?

(Personally, as we're off on the tangent, I try to avoid handmaiden in the same way I (very recently) try to avoid references to kool aid. Because of the potential dodginess of the free will of all historically/fictionally involved)

Why are we still paying tampon tax?

Because we are still in the EU.If you buy sanitary products from Tesco they bear the VAT.

I do think it is time for action - real action of the corrasion of identity and rights of women we need to at least halt the decline

I mentioned, in response to a post which referred to some women as handmaidens, that this was something which I thought was wrong as a term to use. I cited my dd's experience. It wasn't to make the thread about my dd - had I not received so many needless questions about the circumstances under which she was called handmaiden, it would have been left there.

@user1474652148
What will I do?
I have written to my (very right wing) Tory MP. I have had a depressing predictable response (altho I know he gets the toilets issue as I've heard him talk about it).
I will be responding back to him and to the Minister for Equalities. I have signed up for 'below the line comments' on any publication that will have me and post gender critical responses to all articles.
I am also peak transing my friends - especially those in education as that is an area that trans pressure groups have been able to access (courtesy of a Department for Education who have failed to exercise due diligence and to quality assure the TG pressure groups that they have funded and promoted) .

It's small steps but hopefully the rolling stone is gathering speed and allies etc

But I still don't understand why she was called a handmaiden! That's the frustrating thing - you haven't explained it!

Was it because she's bi and has ended up in a relationship with a man and people are being horrible to her because of that? If yes, then that's awful and inexucusable. But that wasn't how guardian used it, so it's not really relevant.

"Handmaiden" is not. It means nothing other than the person shouting it disagrees with the other person."
I disagree. I think it is a very useful term to describe the "oh, men can't see dirt" "oh, bless them, they never really grow up""he'll be more interested in helping with the baby when she's older" "well, he wouldn't need to use porn if you initiated sex more often" type opinions.

As it happens, I don't use the word very much myself. I find that the outrage it produces, while fascinating and telling, is counterproductive. But there are times when it is very useful.

Aluner, if, as I suspect, your daughter has been called s handmaiden by lesbians because she has sex with men, that of course, is completely unacceptable. If you start a separate thread about it there are plenty of people on here who can offer help.

I think that is true on MN and a large section of Twitter. Outside of that the women’s groups I’m involved in (Labour, breastfeeding groups etc.) are going ahead with their feminist activity without being affected by the trans movement debates. The Labour WASPI campaign for example. And we can continue breastfeeding support campaigns whether we describe them as ‘for people who breastfeed’ or not. For many, many feminist issues the obsessions on here are irrelevant.

ALunerExplorer

I think the reason you were asked about the circumstances was not to blame your DD in any way but to provide context as it’s inconceivable to anyone here that she would be seen as a handmaiden simply for being bi. And that if she were the women calling her a handmaiden would most certainly not be doing it from a real understanding of feminism or what a handmaiden is.

Being a handmaiden also isn’t necessarily a conscious thing because dislike of women is so prevalent it feels quite natural going along with the flow of society. To give an example some women I know often speak disparagingly of girls in general, assuming that they are bitches and manipulative and when they do so they expect nods and agreement from the others they are talking to because it’s such a mainstream view. This upholds a patriarchal and traditional view of women being more naturally deceitful than men and is something I would describe as handmaiden behaviour.

I disagree. I think it is a very useful term to describe the "oh, men can't see dirt" "oh, bless them, they never really grow up""he'll be more interested in helping with the baby when she's older"

Yes and many “handmaiden” opinions tend to see men as kids, and are quite derogatory about men in general. But the end result is usually that women have to work harder to facilitate them.

And my point was that the term is derogatory and why would I need to explain those times when it has been used, since it is derogatory. I will own that I had assumed that rather fewer people than I was hoping, have a problem with it, so if I have been reticent to provide any further context than I already have, it is not because I am trying to be obtuse.

And I had already cited the one occasion where it was used because she is bi. Of course its outrageous. But it apparently isn't when used against her in other contexts.

So if I don't elucidate further on those other contexts, its because I can already tell (by the justifications of the use of the word) that I would not feel safe in disclosing that information.

I appreciate that I find that, in itself, difficult to comprehend. I am sure that comes across in my tone.

I have a birthday cake to make. I wish you a good evening.

I'd rather call a spade a spade and a handmaiden a handmaiden.

It has a particular meaning - perfect for the meaning I first used it. I think people only object because at some point they have been called out for assisting antifeminist men at some point.

I don't think I need to pay respect to fictional characters, but I do try to be specific when saying 'kool aid' because real people died in tragic circumstances.

However the language police can do one afaic - I have even been told I shouldn't use the word 'patriarchy' before because 'it sounds like i'm anti men'! I am not going to refrain from language to describe the oppressor or his assistants thank you very much.

Making cakes appears to be a favourite task of derailers on this board.

Of course it's depgatory-it's meant to be!

I'm sorry Aluner-I really don't understand you. And I really would like to.

These swirling flingers of accusation certainly have a lot of cakes to make and decorate don't they?

X post sleigh

Ironic really that I make cakes for a living and frequently post while baking.......

and are quite derogatory about men in general

Well by that definition it would include most of the posters on FWR. It is as useful as "transphobe" - it means something the accuser doesn't approve of.

I understand a handmaiden to be shorthand for a woman who takes the patriarchal position with regards to a particular issue.
For example a woman who argued that men are also raped by women and report it less than women because of the stigma in a conversation about rape.
Or a woman who says she likes being catcalled, it's complimentary.

It is pejorative and I don't use it. To be fair I've only seen it used on here when posters are being really annoying.

Anyhow maybe we can get back to the topic at hand?

And I am trying to understand why a slur is wrong in one context, but okay in another. Why its wrong if the woman is bi, but justifiable otherwise. Or why its okay to defend using it, but not okay to question its use.

And why mentioning baking cakes is now apparently weird too, instead of a way of trying to nicely and without rancour end a conversation.

Goodnight.

You're right about the cake making! How odd. I'm tempted to over think it and come up with all sorts of wild conclusions about the sub text

How nice.

My disability means I can't do both.

it means something the accuser doesn't approve of."

No-it means a very specific sort of behaviour. Not just general disapproval.

luner hope the cake is going well