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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

“Transwomen are women”

599 replies

BertrandRussell · 27/12/2017 09:33

There are plenty of angsty threads on this topic, but please can this one not be.

Please can someone who thinks that transwomen are actually, literally women tell me the reasoning behind the thought? If you have come to this conclusion because you have read scientific research, please could you link to it.

I will only respond with “Thank you” or to give you clarification if you ask for it,and please will anyone else interested do the same.

OP posts:
ItsChristmoose · 27/12/2017 09:36

Because they wish to and can function in society outwardly as a woman in every way that is if any business of other people.

Many trans women are actually doing this very successfully. You just don't notice them.

DoculamentDoculament · 27/12/2017 09:38

This has been done to death.

ButteredScone · 27/12/2017 09:40

'Because they wish to'

I wish to be a sloth. I actually function quite like one too. Whaddya reckon? Sloth me?

ALLIS0N · 27/12/2017 09:43

Can you please explain what you mean by “ function in society outwardly as a woman “ ?

How do women function in society in a way that is different from men?

ALLIS0N · 27/12/2017 09:46

Oops Bernard , am I ok to ask for clarification of a previous post ?

Nineteenagain · 27/12/2017 09:47

ItsChristmoose

and can function in society outwardly as a woman in every way
Please explain what this means without resorting to gender stereotypes. Thanks

MaidOfStars · 27/12/2017 09:51

Because they wish to and can function in society outwardly as a woman in every way
To be clear, your definition of ‘woman’ has no reference to biology? It is a costume and simply a matter of ‘want’ and ‘can’. Why the word ‘outwardly’? Is that acknowledgement that ‘inwardly’ exists and transwomen don’t meet this criteria?

noblegiraffe · 27/12/2017 09:52

But that would mean any trans woman who couldn’t ‘function outwardly’ as a woman for whatever reason isn’t a woman. That suggests the test is whether anyone can spot them.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 27/12/2017 09:52

and can function in society outwardly as a woman in every way

My guess is itchristmoose means when these women wander about in society people see them as women.

PeanutButterIsEverything · 27/12/2017 09:53

If I learn Nigerian, wear Nigerian dress, cook Nigerian food and go and live in Nigeria, can I declare that I am, in fact, Nigerian and always have been on the inside, even though outwardly I am a white Yorkshirewoman?

Foodylicious · 27/12/2017 09:55

Sorry, but if you are genuinely interested, i suggest you do your own reading and look for 'research' yourself.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 27/12/2017 09:57

“Sorry, but if you are genuinely interested, i suggest you do your own reading and look for 'research' yourself.”

I have. Lots. Can you suggest some good resources?

OP posts:
drspouse · 27/12/2017 09:57

That suggests the test is whether anyone can spot them.
So a 6 ft 6 rugby player who struggles with body hair is less of a trans woman than a preteen boy who wears a dress and conforms to girl stereotypes.

ATeardropExplodes · 27/12/2017 09:57

Sorry, but if you are genuinely interested, i suggest you do your own reading and look for 'research' yourself

Is there any? Research I mean...

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 27/12/2017 09:59

“Many trans women are actually doing this very successfully. You just don't notice them.”
I know.

My question is for people who think transwomen are actually, literally women .It’s not about men who wish to, and do, live as women

OP posts:
PeanutButterIsEverything · 27/12/2017 10:02

Well I suppose I could live as a Nigerian and be accepted by the Nigerian people and could say I was Nigerian but I could never become black which is the analogy I am (badly!) trying to make here.

ACubed · 27/12/2017 10:02

I'd be really interested in any research - I was thinking the other day, if someone showed me clear evidence that gender is an innate quality and it's possible to be born with a gender that doesn't match your genitals, I'd completed change my views on the whole subject.
But I must say the fact that I believe gender is socialised doesn't change the fact that due to living in these societies some people will go through a horrible time feeling like they are in the 'wrong body' and should be fully sympathised with.

CoteDAzur · 27/12/2017 10:06

"Can you please explain what you mean by “function in society outwardly as a woman“ ?"

Mimic women. That's what they mean.

They are are talking about males who have dressed up, made up their faces & hair, took hormones to add curves to their bodies, and trained their voices higher to pass as women in their everyday lives.

CloudPerson · 27/12/2017 10:11

I apparently function outwardly as a man, if my clothes have anything to do with it. I still have the pesky female biology stuff going on.
Going by outward appearances leads to more masculine presenting females to be criticised for not being womanly enough, yet they are women. But some TRAs have castigated them and claimed they are more woman than they are.
Being a woman is solely about biology, not looks or clothes.

CloudPerson · 27/12/2017 10:13

Meaning, it's biology that gives women womanly life experiences - periods, childbirth etc, not what they wear or how they act.

Foodylicious · 27/12/2017 10:17

Google
'Scientific theory of transexuality'
It's not a bad place to start.
I would look for articles in medical journals and sociological/psychological perspectives to get a balanced view perhaps?

I suspect you will find a fair bit

ATeardropExplodes · 27/12/2017 10:20

Can you link to one?

hackmum · 27/12/2017 10:21

There’s no such language as Nigerian!

ItsChristmoose · 27/12/2017 10:27

My question is for people who think transwomen are actually, literally women .It’s not about men who wish to, and do, live as women

My response OP was that beyond them wanting to appear as and function as women in society, it's actually none of our business to pick them apart. It doesn't matter to anyone, except maybe their doctor and their partner, how their biology functions.

I'm really not interested in a debate as I don't see this issue like the majority who will pile in on the thread. OP you asked and I've been as honest as I can with you. The thread is simply going to become a discussion on criminals from here on in, not trans people.

LizzieSiddal · 27/12/2017 10:28

I’ve always felt much younger than my age, I love watching Teen TV programmes, listening to “teen” Music etc. I chat online with a lot of teenagers and they all think I am 15. I’ve dressed like a 15 year old for the while.

In January I’m going to apply to go to my local comprehensive and join Y11. I’m also going to join The Guides and my local teenage netball team.

I look 15 and FEEL 15, my birth certificate may say I’m 42 but I am demanding the law is changed so I can self certify my age.

If anyone says I’m not 15, and stops me living as a 15 year old they are abusing me!