“Transwomen are women”

[BertrandRussell]

There are plenty of angsty threads on this topic, but please can this one not be.

Please can someone who thinks that transwomen are actually, literally women tell me the reasoning behind the thought? If you have come to this conclusion because you have read scientific research, please could you link to it.

I will only respond with “Thank you” or to give you clarification if you ask for it,and please will anyone else interested do the same.

Sorry OP, my post has nothing to do with your question!

“Scientific theory of transexuality'
It's not a bad place to start.”

Please can you link to the one you thought was the best?

Id also love to see some peer reviewed scientific researc in a reputable journal about innate gender differences.

Oh fgs. Bertrand you are clearly saying that being a male or female is a biological fact and can not be Changed regardless of how you feel. There is nothing to be debated about chromosomes so therefore no other perspective will mean anything to you. What’s the point in asking?
Others do have different perspectives that don’t just consider biology. You and others will say that’s not reality. Where’s the debate? It doesn’t seem you or others really want to understand what others maybe saying- just to point out that they are not sticking to biological definitions. What’s the point in anyone responding to you- when no doubt it will be at cross purposes?

I think people mean that they are willing to pretend that TIMs are women and that therefore everyone else should pretend too.

I've said this before on here but IMO the "transwomen are women" position is either dishonest or misogynistic. And of course often both.

Women are adult human females. So anyone claiming that transwomen are women is either claiming that males are females or they are applying their own definition to the word "woman".

Claiming that males are females is of course utter claptrap and changing the definition of "woman" to "whatever a man wants / a costume anyone can wear / a fetish / a sex role as imposed by male supremacist misogynistic stereotypes" is of course deeply misogynistic and inhumane.

I also think this ridiculous notion that "transwomen are women" is transphobic and homophobic in addition to being a misogynistic lie.

Nope
Do your own reading and come to your own conclusions
Sorry
To think one article will 'cover it' would be very naive

Ok - even if one can "have a female brain" which is biologically different to a male brain and isn't due to conditioning - this does not alter sex chromosomes, and all the knock on biological effects e.g. hormones, reproductive organs, and secondary sexual characteristics.
So saying trans women are ENTIRELY female, however you slice it, is placing all the determination of sex on the brain, none on other biological characteristics.

My response OP was that beyond them wanting to appear as and function as women in society, it's actually none of our business to pick them apart. It doesn't matter to anyone, except maybe their doctor and their partner, how their biology functions

This

Ok Foody what convinced YOU?
Or do you not want anyone else to be convinced?

There are quite a lot of people on Twitter saying that the biology has been misunderstood and trans women can be women. Sounds like utter crap to me but it’s useful to try to understand what these people are on about. My suspicion is that they say this in order to get away from the accusation that they (men) are attempting to redefine what a woman is without asking women. But also interested to see any sensible link so that we can clarify this point.

“Do your own reading”

So men want to get into my space and my identity but I have to go and do the work to find out why? No attempt to engage or persuade ? Just do some work and then budge up.

My response OP was that beyond them wanting to appear as and function as women in society, it's actually none of our business to pick them apart. It doesn't matter to anyone, except maybe their doctor and their partner, how their biology functions

But this doesn't work in the real world where actual women exist. I mean unless you are willing to erode women's rights whilst demanding that they accept your lie about what a woman is, about what they are.

Which is rather a big ask don't you think?

They are transwomen. They aren't and can never be literally a woman. They might think and feel that they're a woman but as they have never been a woman they don't know. Particularly if they identify with gender stereotypes including long hair make up and dresses.

One of my neighbours is a transwomen and a personable soul. He does however wear clothes similar to the opening scene of Pretty Woman and can teeter around in any high heels with the best of them. I presume it's 'fashion' that makes him identify with being a woman. Not feminism, the glass ceiling, motherhood, having it all that enable me to identify as a woman because I am one.

He s a transwoman and I believe it's ok to say that. He's accepted in the community and well liked and doesn't receive much abuse but as a trans woman not a woman.

The point, is that something has convinced many, many people that transwomen are literally women. What? Where is it? Please show me.

“Nope
Do your own reading and come to your own conclusions
Sorry
To think one article will 'cover it' would be very naive”

I don’t think one article will cover it.

You have obviously done a lot of reading. Why are you not prepared to recommend anything?

To think one article will 'cover it' would be very naive

That's fine, you can maybe link to more than one. I don't think there is a limit.

“The point, is that something has convinced many, many people that transwomen are literally women. What? Where is it? Please show me“

This.

The point, is that something has convinced many, many people that transwomen are literally women. What? Where is it? Please show me.

Metoo. I'd love to know just how this all happened.

I am a long time lurker and this post has made me finally sign up for an account.

I think transwomen are women. It's about the philosophical internal sense of self and if this aligns with the external body. Mostly, the internal sense of self aligns with the external body. For a minority of people their internal sense of self does not align. When this happens we can either chose to accept the person is their internal sense of self and not their outward body or reject it.

A woman trapped in a man's body is no less a woman.

Happy to discuss.

‘They are transwomen. They aren't and can never be literally a woman.’
Oh good- I don’t think this point has been made enough. Let’s have another 50 pages saying this same thing again. And laugh at how stupid anyone is who talks about - oh I don’t know- something stupid like feelings.

The point, is that something has convinced many, many people that transwomen are literally women.

I don't think this is true, is it? That would be a huge leap. Surely people are just deciding that "woman" is no longer a label referring to a biological reality but a chosen identity?

Glitched- great. Thank you. So the “literally a woman “ thing is solely about feeling? Can you say what “feeling like a woman^ means? Or is impossible to say?

Have people not just been convinced because they're wanting to be uber liberal. Trans is trendy at the moment. Celebrities bringing up gender neutral children, the Labour party appointing a 19 year old Trans woman as Woman's Officer . It's virtue signalling.

The shame about it it is many of us feminist liberals are accepting and supportive of genuine trans people. We are not bigots and terfs. It seems strange that there is no grey area, no place in the middle.

Why can't we say we don't agree trans woman are woman but believe they should not be discriminated against and should have their own gender neutral safe spaces and not encroach on female spaces. Same for transmen if anyone bothers to mention them

I find this “ feeling like a woman “ very confusing. I have asked many many women what is it and no one can answer me.

How can the whole basis of “ being a woman “ be a set of feelings that no one can define or explain?

glitched
A woman trapped in a man's body is no less of a woman.
Sadly she is. A trans woman. A different type of woman. Not less, still equal. Bit not a woman.
Lots of people are trapped in bodies they don't identify because of weight/class/disability.