International Men's Day?

[DreamGhost]

Firstly I see this was back in November so I apologise if there has been a post already, did have a quick look and couldn't see anything!

This picture appeared on my Facebook timeline. Is it an actual thing? I feel like there's so much wrong with these statistics, like they're only telling half the story.

Well it's not true that 40% of domestic abuse victims are male so it wouldn't surprise me if those other figures were incorrect/flawed too.

I view international men's day the same way I viewed heterosexual pride day.

I feel like there's so much wrong with these statistics, like they're only telling half the story

Well obviously- they are ignoring the fact that the perpetrators of violence against men are likely to be men.

So far as workplace fatalities- the point is irrelevant. Certain industries are more dangerous than others. They tend to be in the building trade and heavy industry which are male dominated. The safety standards need to be improved. It is poor safety standards, not the fact the workers are male, which causes the fatality.

I can imagine the the suicide one has some truth to it. However, the reason is often due to the fact that more men don’t seek help for depression, usually because they’re socialised to be ‘big & tough’

Homicides- mostly committed by men.

Violent crime- mostly men who are perpetrators. Plus, are we not counting rape/sexual assaults as violent crime? Because women are far more likely to be victims there.

40% of men being DV victims is laughable

Homelessness is not caused by women. Far more likely to be due to addiction problems, previous history of crime, mental health problems (see above).

Workplace deaths- a PP said.

Prisons- probably due to the fact that most crimes are committed by men. I remember reading some research that showed that the motives behind crimes committed by men and women are very different. Women are more likely to break the law due to desperation. Plus, I’ve also read that women receive longer sentences for the same crime.

Well obviously- they are ignoring the fact that the perpetrators of violence against men are likely to be men.

Exactly what I was thinking too.

I actually think the reason why men are more likely to be victims of violent crime is because IME men tend to be less concerned with taking precautions and are more likely to put themselves in risky situations than women are. I honestly don't mean this to sound victim blamey (if anyone attacks you it is 100% the attackers fault) but women have it instilled into them from an early age that we need to keep ourselves safe, not to get too drunk, don't walk alone after dark, etc. Men don't have the same messages drilled into them from an early age and are also far less likely to be blamed or held partially responsible if they do get assaulted.

I imagine the reason why men get given longer prison sentences is because men are more likely to be convicted with murder, sexual assaults and violent crimes. Crimes against the person do (rightly) tend to come with a harsher sentence than property crime.

Men are more likely to commit suicide but suicide attempts tend to be about equal. It's just that men are more likely to be successful due to methods used.

There are more homeless men than women but that is very likely due to the fact that children who are made homeless are usually with their mothers therefore they get given priority when it comes to accommodation; nobody wants to see kids out on the street. Homeless women without children tend to end up in prostitution and other sex work.

So yeah, those statistics are probably true to an extent but it's often not as simple as it appears on the surface.

What a lot of those statistics aren't saying, is that the perpetrators of those crimes are mostly men.

When men are assaulted, it's usually by other men. When men get raped, it's usually by other men. Killed? Usually by other men, etc etc you get the picture. So yes men are also victims, but women aren't the major problem. It's still men.

Clickbait: that's the only story behind this kind of info graphics.

It doesn't even list the references, whether these are national or international numbers and for what period of time.

Well obviously it is meant to counterbalance Women's Day but Women's Day doesn't celebrate victimhood, it celebrates the women who have fought and are fighting for women's rights.

Apparently men want change
but have no desire to change.

Name the problem..

I think the suicide one is true - I haven't checked the actual stat but there is a problem with male suicide that I think genuinely should have more attention. Putting it with some of those other stats does undermine it rather.

Apart from the domestic abuse figure, the rest could be true I suppose. Male violence is a huge danger in this world for both men and women. So its possible. Wish they'd have a day highlighting and denouncing the sheer levels of male violence that blight and destroy lives every day.

Wars and genocides. Last century hundreds of millions died - mostly civilian.

Meh. I'm glad it exists if all it does is give us an answer to the whingers on International Women's Day who moan about there not being one and we can point out that there is.

Well, it gives Richard Herring something to do on International Woman’s Day!

I think these are mostly true or close enough, as other painters have said. They seem like the sort of thing MRAs could and should be involved in campaigning or organising about - improved safety in workplaces, encouraging men to talk about suicidal thoughts, stopping men from assaulting people, etc.

Of course, that would need MRAs to actually be concerned about making men's lives better rather than simply whining about women.

If men want to have an international men's day, why not?

I view international men's day the same way I viewed heterosexual pride day

Same.

Figures seem about right (except the 40% DV ) but yes what they fail to mention is that its also the huge majority of the time, men who are hurting other men. The figures are left oddly open, as if they expect people to take from it that its women hurting all of these men? male violence is a problem for everyone. but calling it male violence is horrific apparently and is blaming all men.

This might seem a stupid question but are there serious studies and research into why men are violent?

I don't personally know any men who are (or who I know to be) violent- even when drinking the men in my life are not violent. What is so different between them and men who are? Is it biology, societal expectations? family background and upbringing?

That's a very important question, Lass. And obviously I can't answer it. But watching my teenage son's peers over the past few years I have been shocked at how quickly aggression and even violence erupts from some of them. I hesitate to say it, but there seems to be
class/education element to it. Although dd, who is at a well regarded university has been hit by a fellow student, and reports that verbal attacks, if not physical Ines are quite widespread.

I expect any serious research would be NAMALTed into oblivion unfortunately. As studying why so many men are so very violent is clearly accusing all men of being violent. Same as even using the phrase 'male violence' means you are a man hating beast.

This is a single anecdote but I used to work in a pub which was en route to the ground of a premier league football club. There are 12 teams in the Scottish Premier League. Out of the 11 possible visiting teams the policing was much higher for 2 particular teams because that was the way it was. The supporters for these 2 teams were expected to be more likely to be violent than the supporters from the other 9. They tackled the effect but whether anyone looked at the cause I do not know.

I think that's quite common, sadly, Lass.

Well it would be interesting to research violent behaviour full stop. I am sure that any decent researcher would start by discovering that in human beings it largely but not exclusively occurs in males.

My own thoughts are some sort of combination of

• Size and Strength

Must be more tempting to be violent even in self defence if you think you can win

• Power

I am sure men are more likely to hit their girl friends than their boss at work as the consequences are less likely to be serious for them.

• Hormones / Biology

Maybe there is an element of male biology e.g. Testosterone that plays it’s part

• Socialization

Boys seems to be bombarded with lots of super heros and toy weapons. There are lots of violent male characters in movies as well. Also girls are encouraged to be more empathetic and caring perhaps this is protective against violence.

I note that when I do read about women being abusive it is often in a context of them having a power / strength advantage like perhaps being a carer in a care home.

And some of the most vulnerable people to violence are of course children. I assume though that this follows the usual pattern with men being more violent than women.

The size and strength idea doesn't apply in my experience. Certainly where I grew up it was the short fellas who were most violent.

men have issues and problems that are different to women's. Much as I believe there is a glass ceiling for women ( particularly mothers) I believe there is a glass floor as well.

More boys are born than girls across the world, but many more die young of illnesses and accidents. In many countries, men are individually less likely to marry and have children, although some men may have several wives at once, there are many who can't find a wife at all. men in the uk are 3 times more likely to commit suicide, and 9 times more likely to become homeless.

It may be that men themselves are the route cause of many of the issues they face, but as with all such thinks, it isn't the individuals that cause the probems that end up being the one to suffer from them.

I think an international mans day to highlight and possibly move towards understanding and resolving some of these inequities is in everyone's interest. Same as resolving inequalities skewed against women is in the benefits of everyone .