International Men's Day?

[DreamGhost]

Firstly I see this was back in November so I apologise if there has been a post already, did have a quick look and couldn't see anything!

This picture appeared on my Facebook timeline. Is it an actual thing? I feel like there's so much wrong with these statistics, like they're only telling half the story.

Women may be statistically safer in their retail, call centre, service industry roles, but again, why are these female jobs

Too, don't these kinds of roles carry their own sorts of, perhaps more chronic, health risks. One must ask, is it worse to say fall off a scaffold and injure a wrist, or suffer from long-term repetitive wrist injury?

On the 40% of domestic violence victims are men may be accurate insofar as if you take all dv victims 40% will be male. What is NOT revealed is how of the 60% of women will be many many more times victimised. In fact the individual instances cease to be recorded past a certain point. Similarly the damage inflicted on women is likely to be worse and more likely to be fatal.

The issue at the heart of this is how women are assigned an intrinsic value (as objects, not with agency mind!), which to men at the absolute bottom of the pile probably looks preferable with being assigned agency with no value.

The idea should be we all have an intrinsic value from our common humanity, and equal agency. Looking at the problem from either side of the fence there is a danger that from any subjective position it's easy to think the grass is greener on the other side.

And at least some of the perpetrators will be male too.

No arguing with the number of women killed by their partners. Although I have met people who tried to........

The statistics look correct or at least they are close enough, not sure about the DV one seems a little high.

Does this go into great detail explaining the stats no it doesn't but then it is not supposed to. It's job is call attention to problems which men face and to gather support. So what if a male victim is attacked by another man how on earth is that self inflicted?
I know why this has been posted on this board so that posters can ridicule it's message and find faults with it (even though the stats don't actually lie) which is odd because I frequently see posts saying men should go out and do something about the problems they face.

Also no where in this message do I see any blame being directed towards women

The DV one is - iirc - from a particular survey that firstly included "nagging" as an abusive behaviour, and secondly didn't count instances of abusive behaviour for each person. Then thirdly it didn't record the sex of the perpetrator.

So (being carefully sex neutral...)
Person A counts once in the % for saying they have been nagged at by their partner
Person B counts once in the % for being hospitalised seven times

Another point is that - again iirc and I'm thinking of the right source - sexual violence isn't counted in it.

Oh another point I missed. If I leave abusive partner number one, meet nice partner number two, and then number one comes around and murders number two to get at me, that is counted in DV stats.

I think that the statistics in the International Men's Day graphic in the OP are for the UK or perhaps the USA, not for the whole world. For example, there is no way that men are 40% of domestic violence victims worldwide.

@Holowiwi

"The statistics look correct or at least they are close enough, not sure about the DV one seems a little high."

Which country do these statistics come from and representative of it's population?

@Holowiwi

"I frequently see posts saying men should go out and do something about the problems they face"

Which problems are they?
male violence.? male vanity? male entitlement?

Most males who are DV Victims are actually victims of other males in their families, their fathers, step fathers, brothers, uncles and their mothers partners etc.

What are men going to do about that when they aren't even willing to highlight that little fact and why do they feel the need to suppress it? and make it appear males are victims of women when mostly they are not?

Those DV stats could be 'correct'; police dealing with DV victims will tell you that in a number of cases the perpetrator will make a counter accusation, which has to be logged as a separate incident.

My view is that the biggest factor in male violence is being smacked or beaten as children. Boys are more likely to be hit as children (although girls are more likely to be sexually molested). We are seeing a correlation with society getting less violent year on year with it becoming increasingly unacceptable to hit our children.

If you look at groups where physical punishment is part of the disciplining of boys you do tend to see marked increases of toxic masculinity and general patriarchal attitudes.

If these men had genuine concern for men's rights and men's welfare, one of their main campaigns would be to stop governments sending them to war. As it is, not a word from them about that. Despite the thousands of men killed and horribly injured every year, with governments using appeals to masculinity to suck them into fighting for rich men's profits.

If these men had genuine concern for men's rights and men's welfare, one of their main campaigns would be to stop governments sending them to war.

Well yes quite. They would also be campaigning for better workplace conditions. And would not get so butthurt with the term 'male violence' given it is other males who kill men the huge majority of the time, not women.

But this image was probably meant to be getting at those nasty feminists who do not care about men tbh. Hence leaving out that its men that cause all of these problems to start with, not women.

They would also be campaigning for better workplace conditions.

Mmm ? Let's not forget that awful lot of good work has been made by trade unions into improving health and safety at work in industries such as mining, construction, steel making etc.

"If you look at groups where physical punishment is part of the disciplining of boys you do tend to see marked increases of toxic masculinity and general patriarchal attitudes."
Interesting. Where did you find that research?

Here's some statistics from Women's Aid suggesting men account for 17% of domestic abuse victims.
www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/how-common-is-domestic-abuse/

And here's some from refuge:
www.refuge.org.uk/our-work/forms-of-violence-and-abuse/domestic-violence/domestic-violence-the-facts/

I think the 40% statistic uses a very wide definition of domestic abuse and when things like IMD quote it they are comparing apples and pears.

I also think men's movements perceive feminists to be talking about the victimhood of women so they try to cast men in that role. They (wilfully or not) ignore the fact that we are focussed more on reducing male violence.

The whole thing is infuriating.

I believe the 40% figure comes from the ONS. However what people failed to pick up on is that even the ONS never claimed that 40% of domestic abuse victims are men, simply that of those that had experienced abuse, 40% were men.

There is a huge difference between experiencing a one off incidence of abuse and actually being stuck in a long term controlling abusive relationship where you've been broken down. There are far more women in the latter scenario than there are men.

Lots here are quick to point out that men are more likely to be the perpretators, but if the victim is male isn't that victim blaming? It almost sounds like saying to a male victim: "ok so you were beaten up, but the person who beat you up is the same gender as yourself so that makes it your problem."

And if a man is murdered by another man then the whole point is he is dead. Makes to difference to him who the gender of his killer is does it?

There was an article I read a couple years back I wish I could find it again, it was basically about a uni student who was saddened because a male friend of his had completed suicide. So he wanted to set up a group within the Uni to address issues like male suicide and stigma about guys asking for help etc. He was basically told he couldn't because there was already a feminist group and feminism was about gender equality. Then when he went into the feminist group he was told the group was about women's issues only, not men's.

“So he wanted to set up a group within the Uni to address issues like male suicide and stigma about guys asking for help etc. He was basically told he couldn't because there was already a feminist group and feminism was about gender equality. Then when he went into the feminist group he was told the group was about women's issues only, not men's.”

I would be incredibly surprised if this happened.

And no, it,t not victim blaming. It’s just pointing out that some people try to make it look as if women are likely to be the perpetrators of violence by only telling half the story.

Talking about violence as genderless is a bit "all lives matter". The reasons for male on female violence need to be explored and tackled. Societal misogyny and structural power issues shouldn't be lost in the entirety of violent crime.

losamsterdamos if we ignore the sex of criminals including DV perpetrators and murderers then we lose the ability to target action as a society to try to address it.

So for sex offences (just because it's one I know more or less) about 96% of convicted sex offenders are male. Your idea that the sex doesn't matter to the victim takes things at an individual level - to take that approach up the chain means that we say "100% of sex offenders are people" and have we really lost nothing there?

Meanwhile the vast majority of people, even while the language has been removed from official stuff, will carry on knowing perfectly well that the vast majority of sex offences are committed by men. Maybe it will go back to being something that women and girls talk to each other about secretly as they can't do so openly for fear of being accused of sexism. Maybe this is the aim? Certainly women have been speaking out more, and #metoo has been very big. Women have said, no, we will no longer keep quiet about this all the time, every time. We will not be shamed into silence about this. And lookyhere - back in the box women and girls - to discuss this is now SEXIST.

Yes, nice.

or what ereshkigal said was more succinct