International Men's Day?

[DreamGhost]

Firstly I see this was back in November so I apologise if there has been a post already, did have a quick look and couldn't see anything!

This picture appeared on my Facebook timeline. Is it an actual thing? I feel like there's so much wrong with these statistics, like they're only telling half the story.

if the victim is male isn't that victim blaming
I don't think you understand what victim blaming is. It means blaming the incident on the actions of the victim.
For example, implying if a woman didn't leave her violent husband, she is responsible for later assaults.

Any action that reduces male violence will benefit male and female victims of that violence.

I found the link:

www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11670138/Why-are-our-universities-blocking-mens-societies.html

"A male Durham University student was so moved by the suicide of a close male friend that he felt compelled to start a society for other men who may need support – only to find it blocked by the Student Union this week for being too “controversial”.

“I went through the Fem Soc policy documents, where it specifically says, ‘Feminism exists for women’ and ‘it would be extremely unreasonable to expect this space to support and cater for the needs of men'. "

I don't think saying that the perpetrators are often male is victim blaming at all? Victim blaming would be...blaming the victim in some way. Ie. He was showing too much skin, no wonder he was raped and such.

So you said
He was basically told he couldn't because there was already a feminist group and feminism was about gender equality. Then when he went into the feminist group he was told the group was about women's issues only, not men's.

And the article said
“Fem Soc have been great, and have offered to work with me, but I don’t think that’s satisfactory, as they don’t have men’s issues as a pressing goal,” he says. “That’s fair enough – so why can’t I set up a men’s group

That's not quite the same is it? Seems to me he didn't want fem soc to help him at all.

I haven't RTFT all the way through but my problem with the argument "well it's men that commit most of the violence / homicides" is that it's a bit victim-blamey. Each of those crimes still has a victim (who's most likely to be a man), and it's not his fault that he happens to have the same genitalia as the person who assaulted / murdered him. His victimhood still deserves to be acknowledged.
It's a bit like refusing to acknowledge the problem of black people being making up disproportionate numbers of crime victims, just because there's also a (related) problem of black-on-black crime. Or dismissing school bullying statistics because both the victim and the perpetrator are children, and you're an adult, so it's not your fault / problem.

Yes, but it's not the job of feminism to examine male on male violence. Of course that doesn't mean no one should examine it.

Surely he was right to not want the Fem Soc to help him, after all, aren't we constantly told it's not the job of feminists to 'help the men'. I see it said on here a lot, 'if men are so bothered, why don't they do something themselves', and yet when someone does try and do something, they are blocked. So can they do it themselves or can't they? Which is it?

A male relative of mine, who was the victim of domestic abuse, including repeated violence (from a female partner), set up a small support group for abused men (regardless of gender of the perpetrator). When he got a tiny grant from the council (I think it was about £3,000), a local women's domestic violence/abuse charity, were up in arms about it. The women's charity rightly received a much larger grant, yet begrudged this tiny amount going to my relative's group.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

a local women's domestic violence/abuse charity, were up in arms about it.

Oh really?

Of course male victims need to be acknowledged. But there are separate issues. The statistics are sometimes presented so it looks (without actually saying it) that women are committing almost as much violence as men are-and that needs to be refuted.
Obviously every victim needs to be acknowledged and is one victim too many. But man in man is not a specifically feminist issue.

Sorry- man on man violence is not a specifically feminist issue.

", a local women's domestic violence/abuse charity, were up in arms about it"
Really? If that's true then it was very wrong of them.

You do know that the Telegraph thing you linked to wasn't a news report but an opinion piece by Martin Daubney, don't you?

Noone is refusing to acjnowledge male victims of crime. But it is still male people commiting these crimes on the whole. Saying that the issue here is male violence is not victim blamey at all.

Yes, but it's not the job of feminism to examine male on male violence.
Too right. Maybe they should have an, erm, international men's day, to highlight it

Maybe they should have an, erm, international men's day, to highlight it

Darn, it's just too bad that international men's day was last month. I guess we'll just have to wait another eleven months before we can spend a whole day examining male on male violence. This is really sucky.

Yes, but it's not the job of feminism to examine male on male violence

Well it should be someone's.

I'm not sure that it isn't a relevant point- particularly if male on male violence is part of a learned cycle of growing up in an abusive and violent home.

It is surely in every one's interest to look to how the cycle of violence can be broken.

One of the many topics that feminists try to raise on Mumsnet is the issue of bringing up boys. I have been on several threads, which all seem to end up with people getting very angry at the very suggestion that their sons might not grow up to be latter day Richard the Lionhearts, sans puer et sans reproche. It’s a huge issue in my opinion, but barely talked about.

Yes which is why they present these stats to grab people's attention and support. Just to let you know not everything is about women. No where in these stats does it say that women are the cause of the problems. Other than the DV stat I am sure most men know that other men are the cause. Trust me we know who attack us not everything is about you.

Were you on that "it's wrong to hit girls thread" a few months ago?

The amount of wrong ends of sticks being grasped was astonishing. Saying we should teach boys it's wrong to hit anyone went down like a lead balloon.

Yes which is why they present these stats to grab people's attention and support

Support for what? Intense and objective research into the causes of male aggression? With a view to finding practical and effective solutions?

Just to let you know not everything is about women. No where in these stats does it say that women are the cause of the problem

We get that. But other than presenting the stats what is the next step?

Other than the DV stat I am sure most men know that other men are the cause. Trust me we know who attack us not everything is about you

Yes, but what is the next step? What are you (general you) going to do about it?

Well it should be someone's.

I've never said it shouldn't be someone's. In fact I made that point already. But it's not feminism. Yes looking at sex (gender) based violence may involve a broader overview, but that is for the purpose of understanding sex based violence. Feminism should not be seen as a catch all discipline to address everyone's problems. It specifically has a focus.

Support for what? Intense and objective research into the causes of male aggression? With a view to finding practical and effective solutions?

If only. Ending male violence would mean an end to almost all murders and definitely near all sexual violence.

Terming it male violence tends to lead to 'you man hater' accusations though. And a hell of a lot of 'not all men...' type protestations.

I suppose it depends on what events etc are done to mark this day.

Stupid MRA rants etc have nothing of value.

Workshops, events etc about the reasons behind male suicide rates should be welcomed.

I refuse to condemn this day when there are valid issues to be addressed. The sentencing thing for similar crimes should be looked at but as an overall thing about how useful or not the prison system is for men. And then we can open the door as to why black men are sentenced longer than white men for the same crime. (I also think that black women are sentenced for longer than white women but cant find that stat).

Just because men get beaten up by men does not invalidate the statistics. Lots of victim blaming on this thread which is disappointing.

Workshops, events etc about the reasons behind male suicide rates should be welcomed.

And just better mental health support in general. But of course that should be a year round thing and not just a one day a year thing.

A lot of people on this thread don't seem to understand what the term victim blaming means.