International Men's Day?

[DreamGhost]

Firstly I see this was back in November so I apologise if there has been a post already, did have a quick look and couldn't see anything!

This picture appeared on my Facebook timeline. Is it an actual thing? I feel like there's so much wrong with these statistics, like they're only telling half the story.

Apart from anything else in that meme, emphasis is needed that men are more likely to be successful in suiciding. Women attempt it more often, they just don't succeed.

Coy, at the risk of being called misandrist (no doubt someone will be along to say it...), there is an element of "short man syndrome" that is probably coming in to play there.

HAPPY CHRISTMAS FWR!

I liked this robert Webb piece on international men's day, very much

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2017/12/male-feminists-are-turkeys-who-voted-long-and-fulfilling-life

In fact, the point of International Men’s Day on 19 November is to highlight those areas where men disproportionately need help rather than disproportionately cause trouble. It will be pointed out to me that it is “no laughing matter” that three out of four suicides are male. It is also true that the overwhelming majority of murders are perpetrated by men and I can’t say my sides are splitting about that either. The two things are linked, but the problem with IMD is that these serious issues attract the attention of some deeply unserious people.

Toxic masculinity hurts men as well as women.

The problem is that the reason for the issues the meme highlights is the patriarchy. It is damaging to men as well as women. Men generally seem incapable of grasping this, and of addressing the issues themselves, and are inclined to blame women......

Every day is international mens day imho! Merry christmas

International men's day because
men are more likely to kill
men are more likely to have car crashes
more likely to be bank robbers
more likely to be muggers
more likely to rape
more likely to burgle
men are less likely to walk away from confrontations.
men have special needs and one of those needs is to see women sexually abused, demeaned and degraded for the sadistic sexual thrill of it, men find it sexually arousing
Oooh the list is endless!

I think an international mans day to highlight and possibly move towards understanding and resolving some of these inequities is in everyone's interest. Same as resolving inequalities skewed against women is in the benefits of everyone

But other than possibly the suicide rate and homelessness the meme is not identifying inequities and the "inequalities" are referrable to men's propensity for violence.

More men commit violent crime than women so more men go to prison. Unless men seriously engage on the root cause of male violence , both individually and societally, then there is little which can be done.

The fatalities at work point is a red herring but deserves its own tailored campaign. A man is not more at risk than a woman in a dangerous workplace simply because he is a man.

I don’t think I have ever come across a genuine men’s issue which isn’t a direct result of the patriarchy. Men benefit from feminism too. Well, thoughtful, kind, nice men do........

The deaths at work thing, they often overlook prostitution, which is predominantly carried out by women and girls around the world and is horribly dangerous, both in terms of death and also injury both physical and psychological.

And that's the whole issue in a nutshell - the meme is not in good faith. There are issues that disproportionately affect men, but that is not what these memes are about, they are about trying to get women to shut about about the stuff that disproportionately affects us.

In general, when looking at issues like suicide and putting to one side the fact that women attempt suicide just as often and rates among girls are rising much much quicker than men ie there are issues around this for both sexes, I have never seen any solutions proposed really. When there are reasons proposed they usually boil down to all men need to be given a woman to look after and she must be subservient to him. Which isn't a decent solution for obvious reasons! While you get women in general agreeing with and supporting things and talking about things like education for girls, rape crisis services and so on, you rarely hear standard men talking about things where people need help and what can be done and what they do.

Which makes me wonder - do lots of men see helping, charity, care as "women's work"? And they simply see worrying about others as not something for them, like literally nothing to do with them? It would explain the rage when women don't look out for men's issues (but that's your job!" and also the weird thing so many men do when something affects them personally and the "suddenly get it" - like "Well I've just had a baby daughter and all of a sudden I can see that XYZ bad thing for women actually IS bad"...

Obviously there are men who do care and have done lots for charity and that but in general, I'm not sure men work like that, they don't see it as anything to do with them?

At work there was a bake sale for grenfell tower. It was suggested by a woman. All the bakers were women. When I went to buy a cake, it was all women in the queue. I had said in the meeting I was in, I'm going to get some cakes, for grenfell, does anyone want some or for me to put some money in? The 2 women in the meeting handed over a note, the 5 men didn't. They didn't look annoyed or worried or anything. They looked like people who had heard a question that was not aimed at them, and they didn't have to do anything. It was WEIRD.

NAMALT obv but there may be something in it as it would explain a lot.

Not often overlook prostitution,

Always.

These are the sort of men who would also say it was a job like any other and more women and girls should do it.

Most women don't see it as a job like any other but still it is work for money so should be included in the stat. To exclude it is totally disingenuous.

Should mention that my work is probably about 60-70% male.

It was the same with the charity day - work gives a day a year and you can sign up for stuff, on the day I went it was 9 women 1 man.

greenshoots it would be great if you could expand a little on this issue for men that you highlighted:

" In many countries, men are individually less likely to marry and have children, although some men may have several wives at once, there are many who can't find a wife at all. "

Yes that point made by Greenshoots was worth expanding on.

I don’t think I have ever come across a genuine men’s issue which isn’t a direct result of the patriarchy. Men benefit from feminism too. Well, thoughtful, kind, nice men do........

I have never ever came across anyone who is genuinely concerned for the rights of men. Its always, always about putting women down or slagging off feminism.

Off the top of my head:

Suicide figure - true
Homeless figure - true
Homicide figure - probably true
Domestic abuse figure - definitely not true (Karen Ingala Smith takes this apart here: kareningalasmith.com/2013/04/29/this-thing-about-male-victims/)
Violent crime - probably not true if you include sexual assault, which you most certainly should
Prison sentences - true, but only because the crimes committed by men are much more serious and therefore deserving of longer sentences
Deaths in the workplace - probably true, as men are more likely to work on building sites etc, though I'd need to check. (92% seems on the high side).
More likely than women to be imprisoned for the same crime - not sure, but I seriously doubt it. Women in prison are mostly there for trivial crimes such as shoplifting, drugtaking and failing to pay their tv licence. I doubt you'll find many men in prison for those kinds of offences.

And as everyone else has pointed out, while there may be more male than female victims of murder, the vast majority of perpetrators (more than 90%) are male. You can't blame women, or feminism, for the bad things that happen to men. You can, however, blame men for the bad things that happen to women. (On the whole.)

Out of curiosity, I checked the figures on workplace deaths in the UK. In the last year, it turns out that 97% of fatal injuries happened to men, so I was wrong there:

www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf

137 people were killed altogether at work, so not a huge number (thankfully). Construction and agriculture were the most dangerous sectors, and men over 60 were disproportionately likely to be killed.

Agriculture is doubly dangerous for workers because a lot of it is solitary work. This is not desirable for psychological reasons and practical reasons if there is an accident.

Farmers are in one of the highest risk categories for suicide, partly because of the effect of solitary working and the availability of legal firearms.

The stats always exclude prostitution though (that I have seen).

Which is a v high risk "occupation".

I wouldn't quarrel with omitting prostitution from "workplace" stats. I want the statistics recognised but in a category of their own.

Adding them into "workplace" fatalities legitimises prostitution as a job and would no doubt lead to calls for making "the workplace" safer.

I think that even if the stats are wrong the idea to recognise that men can be victims (of all the above) as well is a good one.

Like PP have said, toxic masculinity hurts men too so I think addressing things like this will help achieve equality

www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

Guardian piece on gender of DV victims.

"I think that even if the stats are wrong the idea to recognise that men can be victims (of all the above) as well is a good one."
I don't understand. Do you think people are under the impression that men aren't ever victims of male violence?

"toxic masculinity hurts men too so I think addressing things like this will help achieve equality"

This toxic masculinity is an appeal to male vanity and is self flattery, status manhood!!

So how are you ever going to address that?

Oh God... all I was saying was that I agree it's a great idea to address these as it will challenge the matcho stereotype and help to create equality. I'm agreeing, I think it's for the best in the name of getting society to recognise both sexes as equal. But you love an argument so much you don't recognise someone on your side.

I did ask you how you intended to address it?
but just like international men's day you won't even look at the subject to address it.

Is it right that most of men's problems are caused by themselves and self inflicted?

Is it because they are vain and self glorious?