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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Follow on thread to - Feeling sad and weary that feminists and trans-women are constantly pitted against one another.

999 replies

Datun · 19/12/2017 10:17

Thread came to an end. But I wanted to reply to Debbie.

Debbie6666

Your transman in the cowboy hat?

It really it really is the height of enough to actually leverage the damage that the trans ideology does to try and get women to capitulate to it.

We are telling you how detrimental this is to women, including transmen, and you’re actually using it as a ner ner moment?

It’s beyond parody. And very deceitful.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BatShite · 23/12/2017 11:13

Gets my vote. Along with the protected characteristic being called gender nonconforming. As it covers all the bases.

Ah yes, this is definitely a good idea.

I want to live in a world where 'gender' does not even fucking exist. So why would I be supporting this whole thing? I don't even HAVE a gender identity, so a world without gender sounds perfect for me.

Xenophile · 23/12/2017 11:13

GRC process stays as it is. Honour system for female spaces. Blockers illegal for trans kids. Let kids be kids, don't tell them their clothing sense makes them the opposite sex.

Yes, please stop telling children they are fundamentally wrong in some way.

SophoclesTheFox · 23/12/2017 11:13

I'm going to step back for a while because I'm now interpreting that perfectly believes that my contribution to the thread is not what she feels is a real problem (TM) and I don't care to be goaded into saying something that she will then take and run with.

perfectly · 23/12/2017 11:16

BatShite for once I agree with you, I would slightly amend to:

GRC process stays as it is. Honour system for female spaces. Blockers only available to trans kids in exceptional circumstances, with additional safeguards in place so there is no influence from trans adults in the process, Let kids be kids, don't tell them their clothing sense makes them the opposite sex.

Original poster
Datun · 23/12/2017 11:20

@Popchyk

Sorry to backtrack, but I’ve just read your post about children. This link shows a lesson plan devised by the CPS, no less. For 11 to 16-year-olds. It’s frighteningly one-sided in favour of men over young girls. Literally.

And yes, the twins thing. It may be that people are born with a propensity for gender dysphoria, who knows. But it does show that actual gender dysphoria being innate cannot be true.

www.transgendertrend.com/?s=Cps+&submit=Search

OP posts:
BatShite · 23/12/2017 11:22

What would the exceptional circumstances be? See my view is that the risks far outweight the benefits. I don't think we should be setting kids up for lifelong medical problems, just so they could 'pass' better as an adult. Plus the near 100% persistence rate once kids are on blockers...scares the shit out of me. Putting them on blockers creates a self fulfilling prophecy. I am definitely not comfortable with the amount of gay kids who are gender non-conforming, so blockers is basically gay eugenics. And I could never be behind that.

Counseling needs to be made available for parents/kids too. There was a poster a while back whos child was expressing discomfort with their gender and they were told that basically, transition or the help ends. So fucking wrong.

BatShite · 23/12/2017 11:23

I would also like to see the likes of Mermaids crawl back under whatever rock they came out from under. Tavistock, I do trust to act in the childs best interests. NHS needs to stop sending parents/kids to Mermaids.

Original poster
Datun · 23/12/2017 11:23

perfectly

BatShite for once I agree with you, I would slightly amend to:

GRC process stays as it is. Honour system for female spaces. Blockers only available to trans kids in exceptional circumstances, with additional safeguards in place so there is no influence from trans adults in the process, Let kids be kids, don't tell them their clothing sense makes them the opposite sex.

Am I missing something? You agree with us now?

OP posts:
perfectly · 23/12/2017 11:24

BatShite if they were suicidal at the thought of puberty, no other circumstances.

Thehairthebod · 23/12/2017 11:24

Speakers corner was a joy as it affirmed that if you provoke and antagonise people enough they will fight back.

Yes, women, listen up!

Never question a man. Never stand up for what you believe in against a man. Always roll over and accept what a man says, always move over to make room for him.

Otherwise you risk 'antagonising' and 'provoking' him and he might just 'fight back' and beat you up.

Fuck. Off.

BatShite · 23/12/2017 11:25

Also we need research done into detransitioners. The very same research that is blocked currently. Anything that helps us understand more, the thought process behind it all...is surely a good thing.

BatShite · 23/12/2017 11:27

BatShite if they were suicidal at the thought of puberty, no other circumstances.

I was afraid you may say that. I was suicidal at the thought of puberty and even tried to cut off my own breasts at 14.

Intense therapy, and the option to medicalize themselves later in life. i could not compromise on the health of children. Especially when I was one of those kids not too long ago. Its terrifying that if I had been born 10-15 years later I would probably be shoved onto blockers now.

perfectly · 23/12/2017 11:28

Datun It's a fair and reasonable compromise I could back, in fact I suggested exactly the same way back earlier up the thread Grin

BatShite · 23/12/2017 11:29

If I ever do come across as overly passionate on this topic, thats why. I was that kid. I still am that kid deep down. I cannot help but wonder what my life would have been like had transactivists got their claws into me. I expect I would have even more health issues than I currently do, and I would definitely not have my beautiful children.

BertrandRussell · 23/12/2017 11:31

“Bertrand - to keep the current GRC process to avoid vulnerable individuals accessing hormone blockers for purposes of self harm. That's where I would start”

OK. More real problems, please.

perfectly · 23/12/2017 11:31

I'm sorry to hear that BatShite and I can see why you would feel so strongly in that case.
The NHS is here to save lives and if a child presented a severe risk of suicide without the hormones blockers I could support them being given in those circumstances.

Thehairthebod · 23/12/2017 11:33

But even if a pre pubescent child is suicidal at the thought of puberty, they still do not have the capacity to understand the long term effects that starting drugs will have on the rest of their life.

It is up to the adults around them to help them accept their healthy body as it is, not say 'yes, you can be boy/girl' and start handing over life changing drugs. A prepubescent child can't understand the implications of this.

BatShite · 23/12/2017 11:34

The NHS is here to save lives and if a child presented a severe risk of suicide without the hormones blockers I could support them being given in those circumstances.

Out of interest, would you also be happy with treating anorexia along the same vein?

A LOT more research needs to go into the effects of 'blockers' either way. It appears when given to adults even for a short space of time they cause huge side effects. the thought of them on preteen bodies for YEARS, is scary.

Original poster
Datun · 23/12/2017 11:36

Datun It's a fair and reasonable compromise I could back, in fact I suggested exactly the same way back earlier up the thread grin

Fair enough.

OP posts:
BatShite · 23/12/2017 11:37

But even if a pre pubescent child is suicidal at the thought of puberty, they still do not have the capacity to understand the long term effects that starting drugs will have on the rest of their life.

Indeed. What kid wants kids? I swear if I had been told there was a way to stop what was happening to me, but a side effect was not having children, and having health issues in the future..my thought process would have been along this way. 'It will make me happier today. Fuck the future'

Thermostatpolice · 23/12/2017 11:44

I can't support puberty blockers for trans kids in any circs, for all the reasons that PPs gave. But perfectly and Batshite's common ground seems like a reasonable compromise.

But this compromise isn't currently what's being proposed. It's not even the current status quo. That's the problem. That's what motivates us. If the compromise is what you truly want, perfectly I'm not quite sure why you're not campaigning along with us.

BatShite · 23/12/2017 11:59

But this compromise isn't currently what's being proposed. It's not even the current status quo.

The compromise actually puts you on the bad side of the TRAs. TERF, transphobe, etc.

Oddly enough, I find feminists and transsexual people actually have a lot more in common (with wants and aims) that transactivists do with transsexuals..

perfectly · 23/12/2017 11:59

Can’t believe we’ve found a compromise! It only took 1,822 posts but that has made my day.

Happy Christmas one and all Xmas Grin

BatShite · 23/12/2017 12:01

It has been said since the first thread though, that we (on this board) don't have anything against actual trans people. Its the crazy demands of the transactivists that we are pushing back against :S

perfectly · 23/12/2017 12:01

Oh I spoke too soon.

I suggest this compromise becoming the feminist manifesto rather than all the 'trans women are scary men in dresses out to get us' stuff.