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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Follow on thread to - Feeling sad and weary that feminists and trans-women are constantly pitted against one another.

999 replies

Datun · 19/12/2017 10:17

Thread came to an end. But I wanted to reply to Debbie.

Debbie6666

Your transman in the cowboy hat?

It really it really is the height of enough to actually leverage the damage that the trans ideology does to try and get women to capitulate to it.

We are telling you how detrimental this is to women, including transmen, and you’re actually using it as a ner ner moment?

It’s beyond parody. And very deceitful.

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Thermostatpolice · 23/12/2017 10:35

LangCleg and perfectly

"Perfectly is suggesting that we were overjoyed Maria was stalked and assaulted by TRAs"

Thanks LC. I misunderstood your intent perfectly. Just as horrible a sentiment though. Have a think. Do you really mean this?

ISaySteadyOn · 23/12/2017 10:36

Hmm. Thanks for the clarification. That's not much better tbh. I just like to make sure I understand what is being said.

Xenophile · 23/12/2017 10:37

To all the regs on here, Your motives on here seem so transparent. You are desperate to prove the trans are ‘baddies’ out to oppress women. You trawl Twitter and Reddit seeking out any offensive Tweet from a TRA to validate your opinion.

Our motives can't be all that transparent because you seem so consistently to miss and/or misrepresent them. I can't think of anyone who trawls anything, these people come to us, abuse us, harm us, not the other way round.

Speakers corner was a joy as it affirmed that if you provoke and antagonise people enough they will fight back. You have picked your enemy and refuse to compromise on any aspect of their existence, even their pronouns.

Here you show your hand. You are saying here that women need to shut up, that we're not allowed to gather peacefully to discuss things pertinent to women or men are justified in harming us.

You also appear to be having reading comprehension issues with the whole pronouns thing as well. It has been stated in clear language to you by several people now that we will absolutely use the pronouns people insist upon, and the incident at Speaker's Corner is one of the reasons why. Maybe you'd prefer it if we said it in some other way? Interpretive dance perhaps?

It must be so frustrating that there are literally only two TRAs out there who are trying to access women’s spaces. Danielle Muscato and that other one with the tattoos and dress you keep posting about, so you are desperately trying to seek out more. You want them to gain momentum to prove your point that they are dangerous.

I have no clue what flight of fancy you're having here, but it bears no relation to anything in reality or anything that has been said on here.

It’s all about winning a war and you are completely losing sight of the real goal which is to protect women. I believe deep down you would love for a TRA to assault a women in a safe female space so then the mainstream media would take note, everyone would ‘peak trans’ and you would win.

Several woman have been attacked in various ways by men, many of whom identify themselves as trans, in safe female spaces. The mainstream media appears to be holding back on the note taking. My main concern is for women and girls, but I also acknowledge that mainstream trans activism is deeply harmful to the majority of trans women as well. No one wins when people like you suggest that women being harmed is a "joy"

My position is different. Let’s not put women at risk by provoking, antagonising and pushing for a reaction. You will achieve a lot more being respectful and open to compromise. I’ve said all this before but there’s a determination on here to make everything an angry battle.

Gosh yes! LKet's be nicer to men and then they'll stop attacking, raping and killing us! Tha's worked so well for the last few millennia, hasn't it? I won't compromise on the rights of women to safety in public, if you will, then you're absolutely not a feminist. And using the righteous ire of women as we watch our hard won rights being eroded as a pejorative is an MRE tactic, so maybe rethink that?

PencilsInSpace · 23/12/2017 10:38

I think this says it all about you. You think it is joyful for a woman to be beaten up for daring to have an opinion.

^^ this.

Over pages and pages people have been respectfully debating with you, perfectly. We've taken your posts seriously enough to properly engage with the content, even as we've watched you flip flop between 'I only want to find a compromise' and 'you're all a bunch of TERFs' and back again. You've been picked up a couple of times for not posting in good faith but we've stuck with it anyway in the spirit of open debate.

This though take the Biscuit Your slip is now not just showing it's round your ankles.

Go on, explain to us how it was Helen Steel's own fault . I dare you.

SophoclesTheFox · 23/12/2017 10:38

Thank you for the flowers, thermostat. The treatment of endo is absolutely a feminist issue. The average wait to diagnosis is something like 7 years, and the standard of treatment is shockingly low. It's also probably worth pointing out that GnRH drugs, as well as provoking gender dysphoria ( Hmm ) and having horrible side effects, are not even particularly effective.

Floisme · 23/12/2017 10:39

You trawl Twitter and Reddit seeking out any offensive Tweet from a TRA to validate your opinion.
So much material in perfectly's last post but I had to smile at this. It was your attempt on Part One of this thread, perfectly to pass off a fake, deleted tweet as genuine that finally made me realise it was time to take a side. So thank you and now please keep going as you really are doing a great job.

BatShite · 23/12/2017 10:40

Speakers corner was a joy as it affirmed that if you provoke and antagonise people enough they will fight back.

Jesus christ. You have posted some really stupid stuff on here over the past few days but this really takes the piss.

Yes, women on here were overjoyed that an other woman was physically attacked by a bunch of blokes. Hmm

BertrandRussell · 23/12/2017 10:44

"You trawl Twitter and Reddit seeking out any offensive Tweet from a TRA to validate your opinion."
You don't even do that-you just make it up!

perfectly · 23/12/2017 10:46

Literally exactly what Quentin did following my post. You're all just proving my point, not interested in engaging, moving forward or suggesting any ways to compromise.

BatShite · 23/12/2017 10:49

Literally exactly what Quentin did following my post. You're all just proving my point, not interested in engaging, moving forward or suggesting any ways to compromise.

What compromise do you suggest? I know you did a large post on the compromises you think women should make on the last thread. Unfortunately there was no compromise for anyone besides women in the post.

I suggest going back to how things were before tbh, as everything worked pretty well. GRC process as it currently is, and honour system for female spaces.

perfectly · 23/12/2017 10:52

If a war is what you're intent on then crack on, but no MPs are taking you seriously.
Why not pick your battles, filter out all the shit and antagonism and address the real problems?

BatShite · 23/12/2017 10:53

Why not pick your battles, filter out all the shit and antagonism and address the real problems?

What are the 'real problems' in your view?

SpartonDregs · 23/12/2017 10:54

address the real problems?

Which is?

BatShite · 23/12/2017 10:54

Honestly it come s across a bit...focus on what I decide you should focus on. Like MRAs who tell feminists how to do feminism

BertrandRussell · 23/12/2017 10:54

“Why not pick your battles, filter out all the shit and antagonism and address the real problems?”

Ok. Let’s start from there. What are the real problems.?

Xenophile · 23/12/2017 10:57

Yes, please do inform us what the "real problems" are

SpartonDregs · 23/12/2017 10:59

I am poised, notebook in hand...actually it is next year's bullet journal so this is going at the top of the page to remind me what the real problems are.

perfectly · 23/12/2017 11:00

Bertrand - to keep the current GRC process to avoid vulnerable individuals accessing hormone blockers for purposes of self harm. That's where I would start.

Not with sharing pictures from 5 years ago of American basketball player Gabrielle Ludwig playing in a college sports team... and saying in 15 years time all the boys in the UK will be beating girls on sports day and deliberately changing gender to perve on the girls in the changing rooms. That just makes the argument look deranged.

QueenLaBeefah · 23/12/2017 11:00

Is there a list of real problems somewhere?

Datun · 23/12/2017 11:01

You trawl Twitter and Reddit seeking out any offensive Tweet from a TRA to validate your opinion. Speakers corner was a joy as it affirmed that if you provoke and antagonise people enough they will fight back. You have picked your enemy and refuse to compromise on any aspect of their existence, even their pronouns.

See? Absolutely zero logic. Just pointless emoting and why can’t you be kind!

This website that started to collect online abuse of women from people calling them terfs is not made up of TWO people! It’s endless.

terfisaslur.com/

And the argument that people see these kinds of things from Reddit and tumblr is meaningless.

Firstly, it’s everywhere. Not just those two sites. But secondly, what earthly difference does it make where they come from? Real people, with real words, and real hate are saying this. The very people you are advocating to access women’s spaces. The fact that they come from a corner of the Internet is immaterial. I don’t care where they come from. Or should we only be worried about pillars of the community, who suddenly let their masks slip? Crazy predators don’t tend to advertise across reputable sites.

As for speakers corner. As I have already said, I watched the intent for violence unfold, in real time, on the train to speakers corner.

I watched the organised and collective effort to phone every venue within 10 minutes of speakers corner with advice about what lies to tell in order to determine if the meeting was to be held there.

And then I read the let’s fuck up some terfs comment as it was posted.

There is a profound dishonesty to transactivism. When transactivists are shown up, it is the person who has exposed them who is blamed.

Three times on this thread already.

I have been called vile for posting exactly what transactivists say.

A point scoring exercise was invoked using a passing trans-man, implying feminists are in trouble for something they disagree with in the first place.

And now, violent transactivism is spun as something to criticise feminists for!

The hypocrisy is bad enough. But the wilful rebranding of trans-activism and remarketing it as something that is the responsibility of feminists is breathtaking.

And chillingly reminiscent of an abusive relationship.

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SpartonDregs · 23/12/2017 11:01

Oh, I was expecting an answer to what the REAL PROBLEMS are.

BatShite · 23/12/2017 11:04

Yeah, still no answer to the real problems. Shame.

BatShite · 23/12/2017 11:06

deliberately changing gender to perve on the girls in the changing rooms. That just makes the argument look deranged.

As for this, this is not deranged, this is happening. Do you think teen boys won't say they are girls to change with the girls? Really? Do you remember being a teen?

GRC process stays as it is. Honour system for female spaces. Blockers illegal for trans kids. Let kids be kids, don't tell them their clothing sense makes them the opposite sex.

Sounds good to me. If I posted that on twitter right now though I would be attacked by transactivists in seconds.

SophoclesTheFox · 23/12/2017 11:09

I think the treatment of endo is real problem, perfectly, and I take exception when I'm told that the treatment I received was an issue for me because of my ladybrain.

Is that a real problem? How should I compromise on a completely unfounded and anti scientific proposition put by debbie? Should I be a little less sciencey? How would that work?

Datun · 23/12/2017 11:09

GRC process stays as it is. Honour system for female spaces. Blockers illegal for trans kids. Let kids be kids, don't tell them their clothing sense makes them the opposite sex.

Gets my vote. Along with the protected characteristic being called gender nonconforming. As it covers all the bases.

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