Follow on thread to - Feeling sad and weary that feminists and trans-women are constantly pitted against one another.

[Datun]

Thread came to an end. But I wanted to reply to Debbie.

Debbie6666

Your transman in the cowboy hat?

It really it really is the height of enough to actually leverage the damage that the trans ideology does to try and get women to capitulate to it.

We are telling you how detrimental this is to women, including transmen, and you’re actually using it as a ner ner moment?

It’s beyond parody. And very deceitful.

Debbie6666

They don’t have high oestrogen levels compared to how they were before menopause, though. It plummets.

I have never, ever heard of a menopausal woman suddenly deciding she must be a man.

Is there an endocrinologist in the house?

Where did I say that an emergency bowel resection didn't matter, debbie? my post was about how endometriosis is a horrific disease, so I am sorry for anyone who has had to have such painful surgery, as I am personally well aware of how awful it can be, having had repeated, complex, multi hour surgeries myself.

If its you who have had the surgery, I'm sorry to hear that. I find it amazing that someone who has had such painful experiences from their female biology could be so happy to chuck women under the bus, though. I honestly don't know how you'd get there. I'm also unclear how you get to my not caring about bowel resections because I don't believe the action of GnRH drugs is affected by someone's sense of their internal gender identity.

But anyway, nice that you apologised to Datun. Do carry on, I think you're a one-woman peak transing machine at the moment, so have at it.

It is quite a neat illustration of the topic of the thread, though.

Why are feminists and transactivists so often in opposition to one another? Debbie has no empathy at all for my situation - not even a nod to it. It doesn't exist as far as she's concerned, or if it does, it pales into insignificance against the struggles of a trans person. Endo has lost me jobs and relationships, and has impacted my life on every single level. That doesn't raise as much as a meh from a transactivist. It's not of interest, and in fact, it's a threat because of biological facts.

I'm not looking for sympathy, but it's just as well, because that field of fucks is barren. I am constantly surprised by the selective empathy.

You made the assertion that I had no idea about I was talking about re GnRH and that I should go and inject myself with them.

I pointed out I do indeed have experience....

As I say regularly, the only women/girls that matter these days are the male ones.

“So you now own all those issue's and get to decide who talks about them. Somebody else's emergency bowel resection due to endometriosis...”

All else aside, excuse me if I don’t entirely trust the medical insight offered by someone who doesnt even possess the basic knowledge that plurals don’t need apostrophes.

You made the assertion that I had no idea about I was talking about re GnRH and that I should go and inject myself with them.

You see words and make up complete bullshit to your own agenda to play the victim.

There is little point continuing if it comes down to grammar, and you all wonder why its no debate.

SpartonDregs

Pot meet kettle.

I'm done

and you all wonder why its no debate

It's no debate because patriarchy.

I clearly said that my reference to you not knowing what you're talking about was in reference to you saying that the side effects of GnRH drugs in "cis" women cause a type of gender dysphoria because of our "hardwired" feminine brains!

Wow, you're slippery, aren't you?

If you've been on these awful drugs and struggled with endo, then I am sorry. It's not easy. I do note that you're not coming out directly and sharing that as being your personal experience, though. I see that. Does anyone else?

"We all wonder why it's no debate* says Debbie. Oh the irony....

Just a reminder of what RedToothBrush said upthread:

It is impossible to be a genuine rights issue without concern for ethical principles or any thought for safe guarding. Anything that attempts to discourage debate and scrutiny is not a true rights issue. Anything that favours secrecy over transparency in democratic society should be looked upon with real suspicion

It's not SpartonDregs who no platforms, threatens, defines scientific exploration and thinking as transphobic or who writes policy and practice guidelines that ensure women are unable to raise objections without being called transphobic.

Pot meet kettle.

I'm done

You have been outed as a peddler of complete bullshit by someone who has had the horrific experience counter to the facts you described. That is why you are done, not because I pointed this out.

Blimey are you all still going? Just wanted to pop in and point out the hypocrisy and irony of kicking up a fuss about accidental misspelling of a Mumsnet username but there is a persistent refusal on here to respect the preferred pronouns of transgender individuals. It seems this blatant lack of respect is intentional, purely to provoke a reaction from a TRA you can say ‘told you so! They called me a TERF!’ So childish.

Instead of constantly accusing the kettle of being black just bloody put it on and have a cup of tea with your fellow human being who happen to be transgender. You might surprise yourself.

Indeed. But clocked by many of us, I'm sure.

Oh yes.

ust wanted to pop in and point out the hypocrisy and irony of kicking up a fuss about accidental misspelling of a Mumsnet username but there is a persistent refusal on here to respect the preferred pronouns of transgender individuals. It seems this blatant lack of respect is intentional, purely to provoke a reaction from a TRA you can say ‘told you so! They called me a TERF!’ So childish.

Yes It is childish to pop in and spout that.

I see the tag team is working well...

But anyway, what are your opinions on lady brain versus manly brain reactions to hormones?

I didn't "kick up a fuss", perfectly.

I calmly noted that it is not the sign of respectful good-faith debate to repeatedly mis-spell someone's screen name.

It's quite telling that that is the point you picked up on. Kind of adds weight to the theory that Debbie was doing it deliberately, to provoke a reaction so someone could shout "SEE!!! See how important you think it is to get names right!!! Hypocrites!!".

That said, please do keep on mis-representing and name calling, if you think it helps people see your point of view.

SophoclesTheFox

I'm postmenopause and not on HRT. Perimenopause was very uncomfortable both physically and psychologically but now I'm through with it, I just feel kind of peaceful. I've certainly never felt gender dysphoria through this process.

I am not an endocrinologist but I found these charts which show that oestrogen and progesterone in postmenopausal women is at about the same levels as in men. I can't see a source for their figures though so if anybody has any better ones it would be interesting.

To me the fact that there are no middle aged women suddenly deciding they are men speaks volumes.

Aaaaaaaand we're back. No, i don't think anyone has persistently refused to give people their pronouns or would be remotely surprised at anything that would happen while having a cup of tea with a transgender person. What do you think I might be surprised by, perfectly?

Oooh a relay race!

Blimey are you all still going? Just wanted to pop in and point out the hypocrisy and irony of kicking up a fuss about accidental misspelling of a Mumsnet username but there is a persistent refusal on here to respect the preferred pronouns of transgender individuals.

When transgender individuals post on here, preferred pronouns are almost always used. I have yet to see someone deliberately go against the protocol.

That’s completely different to talking about it as a concept. It’s necessary, to refer to people’s sex, when that is the basis of your argument.

I personally did see Debbies various different spellings of my name as probably deliberate. Because I don’t trust her and the way she writes is very selective. But it was a fleeting observation. And doesn’t bother me.

Eh. Maybe she just needs to go to Specsavers.:)

Thank you, pencils. I find HRT really helpful, I hit menopause at 42 (quite common in the first couple of years after hyster, even when you keep your ovaries) and it hit hard, unfortunately. On the right path now, though.

That's an interesting graph. What do you make of it, Debbie?