Follow on thread to - Feeling sad and weary that feminists and trans-women are constantly pitted against one another.

[Datun]

Thread came to an end. But I wanted to reply to Debbie.

Debbie6666

Your transman in the cowboy hat?

It really it really is the height of enough to actually leverage the damage that the trans ideology does to try and get women to capitulate to it.

We are telling you how detrimental this is to women, including transmen, and you’re actually using it as a ner ner moment?

It’s beyond parody. And very deceitful.

TERF is also a flat out lie - it's transwomen that are being excluded from women's spaces, transmen (as a general rule) are fine, what with them being female and all.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/

That's a pretty long review of the state of research - and it doesn't, anywhere, say that transwomen have brains like women.

perfectly

I'd find it difficult to get worked up about TERF if it wasn't for the angry violence with which men direct it at women who refuse to play ball.

And that they use it to mean 'women who hate and and fear trans people', which isn't the case. TERF doesn't mean that. It means radical feminists who exclude transwomen from womanhood. (Although transwomen are automatically excluded from womanhood by dint of being male. Not because radfems have some sort of magical power over biology. But whatever.)

Yeah TERF is a pretty silly nonsensical term. Unless you are someone who thinks only transwomen are trans of course. Which a lot seem to. Transwomen are the most oppressed of the oppressed and must be centered in everything. Else DIAF terf.

True Menthol. Transmen are not excluded from womanhood and nobody is proposing that they should be.

@perfectly - what is your response to my post above at 13:10 stating why you are no longer a lesbian in this 'transworld'?

SpartonDregs it's all nonsense really. My identity as a lesbian does not feel under threat by a trans person's right to identify with a different gender to the one they were assigned with at birth... and a few knobheads on YouTube telling me to suck cock.

I am often around trans people and last time I checked my lesbianism was all still intact, along with my womanhood.

My identity as a lesbian

How is it nonsense...when you are not a lesbian in the transworld, you are a bisexual as transwomen are women? Lesbians don't even exist in that world.

Maybe I've misunderstood, but aren't lesbians who won't suck lady cock transphobic?

Rogue you have misunderstood.

perfectly would you have sex with a transwoman with a penis?

If yes, then doesn't that make you bi, not lesbian?
If no, then doesn't that mean you don't believe transwomen are women or lesbians?

Still 1.5k posts and people refer to transgender as a male delusion, a sexual fetish, a mental illness, something that needs to be cured... exactly what people were saying about the gays 50 years ago.

The delusion is not that a person is transgender. The delusion is that being transgender makes them the opposite sex.

The delusion is that male is female.

The mental health issue is body dysphoria.

The fetish is autogynephilia.

Women defending their class identity, their right to sex segregation, their existence as having a material reality is nothing like the homophobia of 50 years ago and your claim that it is is a vacuous false equivalence.

The transgender movement hijacks just about every bloody cause there is doesn't it? It appropriates gay liberation, transsexualism, intersex and race.

It is a parasitic Orwellian juggernaut of male supremacy pretending to be a social justice movement.

It is a parasitic Orwellian juggernaut of male supremacy pretending to be a social justice movement.

Very well said

Maybe I've misunderstood, but aren't lesbians who won't suck lady cock transphobic?

Totally. And lesbians who date transmen are [basically] straight. Because transmen are men.

So not lesbians. Apart from perfectly who is a special lesbian, obvs.

Perfectly-can I ask a question? Why do you think transwomen are actually women? Actually, literally women?

Tbf its only transactivists and the batshit 'transgender' people who actually believe that male people are female and lesbians are transphobic for refusing the almighty penis.

BUT, it is the natural conclusion of 'transwomen are women' I guess.

Sadly it seems these people (or those willing to try it on to shame lesbians into shagging male people) are not as much of a minority as we would hope they are. As its a fairly common experience these days for lesbians (especially younger lesbians) to be shamed into shagging people with penises.

I'm quite bored of this now. No point asking questions, as no answers. Lots of bait being dropped in. I bet the lurkers are bored too.

Bored is good. It means the debate has run its course.

Perfectly’s position ultimately seems to be ‘why can’t we just be kind? It’s no skin off my nose, after all.’

Which, essentially, is what this argument boils down to, every single time you get the chance to actually debate it.

There is no other real argument that cannot be shredded.

Thanks Datun and Quentin for once we agree! This debate is getting boring as we keep covering the same ground.

Peace out

Perfectly’s position ultimately seems to be ‘why can’t we just be kind?

Which of course, for those of any underclass means: kindness = no personal boundaries which limit your masters. Accommodate, comply, pretend and smile through all the violations.

Perfectly’s position ultimately seems to be ‘why can’t we just be kind? It’s no skin off my nose, after all.’

The expectation that I should be kind because I am a woman really grates my cheese. I actually feel obligated to state how I would fight for transwomen or that I care about their safety or other such rubbish. The truth is I don't give a toss about it and I'm tired of the expectation that it's my job as a woman to be caring and compassionate to any body who demands it.

What an incredibly passive aggressive last post Perfectly

And you seem so proud of it as well.

Peace and love

RogueBiscuit

I know what you mean. I find myself having to preface things with a caring caveat.

But I feel the same way about anyone who is in distress.

It’s not extra special about trans people.

It’s anyone.

And RogueBiscuit sums up the other side beautifully! Thank you for admitting you don't give a toss about trans women and will happily throw them under a bus, I think that's my point proven.

It IS very boring being just a normal straight person. No fabulousness, no drama, so specialness, no special pubs. Just dull.

I wonder what the next big thing will be once everyone realises that Land G are all now B, and B is now mainstream/everyone? Cats? Perhaps special snowflakes will think they are a cat and strut around purring?

Thank you for admitting you don't give a toss about trans women and will happily throw them under a bus, I think that's my point proven.

Except that is not what was said. Your inferences are so wide it would take a transwoman to leap across them.