Feeling sad & weary that feminists & trans women are constantly pitted against one another?

[SmiledWithTheRisingSun]

That's it really.

Instinctively I feel very protective of feminism and all that those incredibly brave women before us achieved. Thanks Nanna 💛

I totally support the idea of protecting women only spaces and don't obviously want a bunch of women-hating rapists in female prisons etc

BUT... surely there's a happy medium to be found ladies?!

Surely there must be reasonable people in the trans community who understand the need to protect all that feminism has achieved?

The same way that I'm a white middle aged woman who doesn't feel the need to demand entrance to a black feminist group. I can support their right to exist without being undermined by it.

What to we call these feminist / trans sympathisers? Please enlighten me wise MNERS.

Love from,
A middle aged feminist who wishes you all peace and love X

Sorry I'm probably in hyper-vigilant mode because I'm now worried that the poster in question is just hoping for anything, however tenuous, that they can screenshot and take out of context to use to smear feminists with.

This is the frustrating thing, feminists are unlikely to say anything inflammatory because the concerns are genuine concerns for women and nothing to do with trans-bashing.

Thermostat - Terfisaslur certainly has a large compilation of them.

And yes, Faludi's take-down of Fatal Attraction is magnificent. In fact, the whole book is magnificent, and (sadly) feels even more relevant now than it did back in the 90s when it was first published. However, in a strange quirk of fate, Faludi's father has come out as a late transitioning transwoman - I read a confused and (to my mind) sad article by Faludi tying herself in knots trying to get her head round it without coming across as terfy. I got the distinct impression of someone so emotionally entangled in a situation that her usual rapier-sharp analytical skills had deserted her for once.

I've been wondering whether our uptick in threads about TRAs is some kind of campaign

I think MN is a pretty high profile target , and a massive thorn in the side.

I've seen a few threads which I strongly suspect are a false flag attempt, thankfully MNers are unfailingly polite and helpful, and don't bite and post stuff that would be regrettable.

I'm not to worried because it happens all the time anyway. "I don't post on FWR because they say feminists can't be SAHMs/shave their legs/wear makeup" and similar bollocks.
The sort of person who would seize something as proof we are "transphobic" is preaching to the converted. And if more people come here to see the "transphobia for themselves so much the better.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine and PricklyBall

Thanks very much. That's the one I was thinking of.

I've certainly reported threads I've suspected of being deliberate attempts to get people frothing, started by trolls, and seen them taken down, so I think false flag attacks can and do happen, but fortunately MNHQ are on the ball.

There has been a fair amount of sock puppeting on these threads this week, however I haven't reported it and others who would recognise phrases and styles of writing have probably also kept quiet as they are useful conversations for people to see happen.

have probably also kept quiet as they are useful conversations for people to see happen.

Exactly.

Yy. I think we all remember that way more people read these threads than comment on them.

'S ok prickly - I get it

But just to clarify - I am not suggesting that sort of treatment for anyone. Not EVEN if they boil our rabbits.

(And not EVEN if it's a gender neutral shower rather than a bath.)

You 'found' a fake tweet created by transactivists in an attempt to discredit feminists.

Was this worth it? Pages and pages of thoughtful discussion from feminists didn't yield any vitreous and your first effort to find anything revealed a fraudulent attempt by transactivists to frame feminists with a fictitious horrible scenario.

You're doing our work for us. Hundreds of women read these threads. They weigh up your words, and ours. I've been on Mumsnet for a decade. Women are making their own minds up. I've seen wave after wave of women become convinced that they can speak up, admit the truth and stop the charade.

Those waves are going to keep breaking. This is absolutely going to end up with women demanding to be heard. There's no other way.

Blooming autocucumber.
*vitriolic

Blooming autocucumber

So poor old perfectly spent hours and hours over a couple of days patiently sea lioning everyone. But it didn't work so perfectly lost patience and ruined all that work with a bit of painfully obvious trolling that was quickly rumbled?

Sympathies, perfectly. A great deal of effort gone to waste there!

(I agree with all the others who have said that we are really writing posts for the lurkers. I was a lurker not so long ago.)

lang I'm glad you delurked, you've written some great posts

God, I lurked on here for about 3 years before I posted.

I think I said "Yes, that sounds right, dittany". And it took me all my courage to post that.

What is sea lioning?

Sea lioning

Well, as I like to ask, but am never answered: how do you square your feminism when women now means anyone who feels like a woman? What on earth does feminism mean when you can't define woman as meaning woman?

I also wondered what sealioning meant

knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning?full=1

X post!

To the ploppers if that wasn't clear.

Give us some meat, people. There are a few things undefined here. Woman for one. And The List. I still haven't seen The List that differentiates men from women. And that goes to all the quasi public bodies that have jumped on the bandwagon.

So am I supposed to report ploppers/sea lions as trolls or not.

I'm pretty Helen peaktransed more lurkers the other day than the rest of the FWR boards all together.

QuentinSummers - aw shucks and thanks!

WTAFisthisshit Actually, I think sea lions do the cause a favour. It doesn't matter how many times you post the same thing with patience and politeness because each time you do, it might be the first thread that a lurker is reading all the way through.

On a personal level, I am unlikely to report anyone. And if I did, it would only be for direct threats of violence or similar.

I think we should carry on treating perfectly as if she is perfectly genuine. After all, she really is only expressing pretty mainstream views, sadly. As another poster said, we are posting for lurkers. And making sure we don't offer anything that can be taken out of context to prove how evil feminists are.