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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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a letter to the woman who called me a terf

1000 replies

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 07:01

To the woman who shrieked at me that I am a bigot and a terf and a hateful transphobe for defending women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and you're referred to throughout your pregnancy as a birthing individual, a pregnant person, and it makes you feel kind of dehumanised and you wish they'd just call you a woman, a mother, because that's what you are. But they're not allowed, because it's illegal to say only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Remember me when you give birth and you feel vulnerable and exposed and you really want a woman beside you who understands what you're going through and instead your midwife is a six foot man with stubble in a dress and you know he isn't a woman but you're not allowed to object, even when you need to be examined and you just want a woman to do it but you know you can't say anything because that would be hate speech, even though your body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who has lost her mind to dementia, goes into a care home and is told that her carer, Susan, is a woman, because you asked that she only be cared for by women. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that Susan is a man, and you know Susan is a man, but you cannot object, and she has to allow Susan to perform her intimate care, because to object would be hate speech.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because Lucas in her class, one of the fastest boys, has decided he identifies as female for now and so is allowed to run in her race, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, he will always beat her, and she can only ever hope for a silver medal now. Or bronze, if there is another Lucas.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's noone else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because if you do he'll say he's a woman and has as much right as you do to be in this toilet, a place where many years ago you might have come to feel safe.

Remember me when you go for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. You've put in the hours, you've worked so hard, you know you deserve it. And the position goes to Lola, who until last year was a 50 year old man. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have babies, or to deal with any health issues that you, a woman might face, like endometriosis, breast cancer, PND. Lola is a woman just like you, and your company are happy that they have fulfilled their quota of women members on the board.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for women committing rape and murder are on the increase, and now women carry out a much higher number of rapes and murders than they did when you were a teenager or a young woman. And you know that these 'women' are men and that the statistics are wrong, but to challenge this would be hate speech. Remember me too, when these women rapists are locked up with vulnerable women in female prisons and cannot escape, because to challenge the presence of the women rapists with penises in prison with them would be hate speech.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas and that his teacher said that because he likes playing with girls and dolls that maybe he is really a girl in the wrong body. And you think, no, you are just my wonderful, unique, son, and you were born in your own body. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that you are not validating your son's identity and that she's noticed you are still referring to him by the name you so carefully chose for him when he was born, and calling him a boy, when he is actually a girl, and that she doesn't want to have to involve social services but she's worried she might have to if you continue to misgender your son and deny his real identity. And you know that she will, because it's happened before in a school near you, and you are afraid.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transactivist friends, your lefty male allies, the ones you stood beside and yellled 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with, with you shouting the loudest, because you wanted to show what a good ally you were, how inclusive, how progressive. Where are they now? Why, they are where they always were. Benefitting from the patriarchy. Enjoying the new, improved version of it that you helped them to build by crushing the resistance from the women who spoke up for their rights. This has all cost them nothing; it has made the world a better, easier place for men. It has cost you and your sisters who campaigned with them for virtue cookies, everything.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for your rights. Fighting to undo the damage.

I'll have your back, as I always have done.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 10/12/2017 20:17

I think you're going to find you'll be standing about two feet behind them...

BeyondAssignation · 10/12/2017 20:19

If someone detransitions, will you still stand by them? Cause there's gonna be a lot of them...

RedToothBrush · 10/12/2017 20:30

She’s doing her best, but having to revise years of memories screws with your head. She makes mistakes

My childhood and my memories are just that. MINE. Even memories I share with someone else.

It was shaped by having a brother, not a sister.
I refuse point blank to erase my history for someone else's benefit.

Yet I am asked to.

Why SHOULD I indulge it? What about how that makes me feel? It's a step too far. History has been and gone. I don't wish to revisit it or recount someone else's fantasy. Or put events that have happened into a context that near existed at the time.

Everyone initially said 'he's still your brother' as if nothing has changed but when I started talking about how my past was being rewritten for me, friends did seem to start getting it was more than someone just self identifying and it wasn't just about his identity.

It's one thing to do things going forward, but going backwards?

Which historical figures will be claimed, I wonder?

Rewriting history to validate the present is the stuff of empires which were rather unpleasant.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 10/12/2017 20:37

It's an ace though isn't it?

Siblings are always arguing about how to remember events - about how one of them called the other one fat/nicked their boyfriend/broke their toy nutcracker.

So now someone can tell you exactly how things were and you can't argue or you'll be oppressing them and a gender terrorist to boot.

A very nice card to have in your hand.

RedToothBrush · 10/12/2017 20:40

Exactly that. Exactly.
It's the power in the relationship that changes and the power you have in relation to your parents.
It devalues you and you are no longer an equal to your sibling.

thebewilderness · 10/12/2017 20:55

Carrot, thank you for describing what we see in front of us.
I am an old woman, so to me transgenderism has looked from the beginning like an effort to drive women out of the public sphere by displacing women with trans identified males, in the name of equality. Over and over trans advocates repeat the 5th rule of misogyny: Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

bellasuewow · 10/12/2017 21:11

Thank you for your post carrot. This is happening.

flingingmelon · 10/12/2017 21:18

StarStarStar

perfectlynormal · 10/12/2017 21:24

I'm with daimbar and gonna and stand by our trans sisters. This whole thread is disgraceful and mean spirited. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Let's hope than in 15 years we will be in a kinder and more intelligent world and all you dinosaurs will have become extinct!

hipsterfun · 10/12/2017 21:28

Here, here’s your good little ally cookie Biscuit

Enjoy.

sauceyorange · 10/12/2017 21:30

For those saying you "stand with your trans sisters", what answer do you have for the concerns raised by the OP? I think most people are genuinely interested to hear both sides. But all too often the debate turns into 'you're all transphobic dinosaurs'. If you e got an actual argument, point of view, or perspectives please share. I have never yet seen anything except insults and petty name calling, sadly.

ShirleyPhallus · 10/12/2017 21:32

This whole thread is disgraceful and mean spirited. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

That isn’t an argument. Can you genuinley not see why women have concerns around trans issues?

OrderMeACurry · 10/12/2017 21:36

"Trans sisters" Hmm

AdalindSchade · 10/12/2017 21:37

Trans identifying males are nobody's sisters

Ereshkigal · 10/12/2017 21:37

Let's hope than in 15 years we will be in a kinder and more intelligent world and all you dinosaurs will have become extinct!

Not that old, dear, so barring an unforeseen tragedy I don't think so.

SunshineClouds · 10/12/2017 21:37

@blackdoggotmytongue Your post is scary and depressing. I'm seeing things like this in my workplace as well.

ShirleyPhallus · 10/12/2017 21:38

Let's hope than in 15 years we will be in a kinder and more intelligent world and all you dinosaurs will have become extinct!

Great. Real women become extinct in the place of trans women and then no one can procreate and everyone becomes extinct. Great result guys!!

SunshineClouds · 10/12/2017 21:40

If you e got an actual argument, point of view, or perspectives please share. I have never yet seen anything except insults and petty name calling, sadly.

This.

There seems to be a singular lack of critical intelligence and certainly a complete failure of humour about this topic - but what do you expect, when keyboard warriors throw around the #nodebate hashtag as though it's some sort of killer argument instead of an attempt to silence women.

Ereshkigal · 10/12/2017 21:40

OP I am a feminist and have fought for women’s rights all my life and you don’t speak for me. Your post does not speak for all women

You don't speak for us. So what to do? I think it should be a case of respecting other women's boundaries, really. You don't have a problem with it? Good for you. I do. So do the majority of women.

SunshineClouds · 10/12/2017 21:41

Trans identifying males are nobody's sisters

WEll LIly Madigan seems completely bereft of any kind of fraternal/sororial respect or care, going by the way she blamed her rape joke tweets on her brother!

Ereshkigal · 10/12/2017 21:43

I think you're going to find you'll be standing about two feet behind them...

Yes.

blackdoggotmytongue · 10/12/2017 21:44

It's not just children, or siblings. It's parents too. I have a friend whose father transitioned. A man who, to all intents and purposes was a regular Joe. His father transitioned many years ago, and my friend has mostly comes to terms with it, but his younger brother is still struggling with being forced to deny he ever had a father called x, but two mothers called a and b. I have no issue with x wanting to wear and frock, use female pronouns and call herself b, but surely the rational (if it is at all possible to be rational in this space) is to say 'well yes I was a man for thirty five years and fathered two sons, but now I go by the name b and live as a woman.' Not to deny the existence of x, despite having fathered children, and accuse their own children of hate speech if they forget and ever refer to their father?

I actually don't know any transwomen who transitioned after marriage, but to deny their spouses any feelings related to the disappearance of their heterosexual and cis normative partner? Or even deny their right to acknowledge that they once had a husband? Nuts.

I don't want to patronize you, perfectlynormal. Like I said, I was once young and hopeful, and thought that people who identified as trans were the vanguard of a brave new gender free world. I couldn't see what the problem was. We all want to smash gender stereotypes, right? Except it turns out, 'we' don't. Some people are furiously determined that women should forever be treated as second class citizens, and behave in specific ways. It's regressive and dangerous. And your use of the word 'dinosaurs' outs you.

Ereshkigal · 10/12/2017 21:47

The trans woman (oh sorry, woman who is also trans, as she doesn’t identify as a trans woman) hosting the ‘workshop’ essentially lectured the assembled women (all women, including one woman who uses gender-neutral pronouns and rejects the concept of gender)

Let me guess. This person was a non binary or gender fluid identified male?

HermioneWeasley · 10/12/2017 21:48

Nice ageism there perfectly

Another one who’s only middle aged so 15 years is unlikely to see me off. My mum is still here and fighting too.

But if championing sterilising gay kids makes you feel better about yourself, by all means knock yourself out.

Ereshkigal · 10/12/2017 21:49

There seems to be a singular lack of critical intelligence and certainly a complete failure of humour about this topic - but what do you expect, when keyboard warriors throw around the #nodebate hashtag as though it's some sort of killer argument instead of an attempt to silence women.

This x 100.

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