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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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a letter to the woman who called me a terf

1000 replies

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 07:01

To the woman who shrieked at me that I am a bigot and a terf and a hateful transphobe for defending women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and you're referred to throughout your pregnancy as a birthing individual, a pregnant person, and it makes you feel kind of dehumanised and you wish they'd just call you a woman, a mother, because that's what you are. But they're not allowed, because it's illegal to say only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Remember me when you give birth and you feel vulnerable and exposed and you really want a woman beside you who understands what you're going through and instead your midwife is a six foot man with stubble in a dress and you know he isn't a woman but you're not allowed to object, even when you need to be examined and you just want a woman to do it but you know you can't say anything because that would be hate speech, even though your body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who has lost her mind to dementia, goes into a care home and is told that her carer, Susan, is a woman, because you asked that she only be cared for by women. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that Susan is a man, and you know Susan is a man, but you cannot object, and she has to allow Susan to perform her intimate care, because to object would be hate speech.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because Lucas in her class, one of the fastest boys, has decided he identifies as female for now and so is allowed to run in her race, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, he will always beat her, and she can only ever hope for a silver medal now. Or bronze, if there is another Lucas.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's noone else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because if you do he'll say he's a woman and has as much right as you do to be in this toilet, a place where many years ago you might have come to feel safe.

Remember me when you go for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. You've put in the hours, you've worked so hard, you know you deserve it. And the position goes to Lola, who until last year was a 50 year old man. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have babies, or to deal with any health issues that you, a woman might face, like endometriosis, breast cancer, PND. Lola is a woman just like you, and your company are happy that they have fulfilled their quota of women members on the board.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for women committing rape and murder are on the increase, and now women carry out a much higher number of rapes and murders than they did when you were a teenager or a young woman. And you know that these 'women' are men and that the statistics are wrong, but to challenge this would be hate speech. Remember me too, when these women rapists are locked up with vulnerable women in female prisons and cannot escape, because to challenge the presence of the women rapists with penises in prison with them would be hate speech.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas and that his teacher said that because he likes playing with girls and dolls that maybe he is really a girl in the wrong body. And you think, no, you are just my wonderful, unique, son, and you were born in your own body. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that you are not validating your son's identity and that she's noticed you are still referring to him by the name you so carefully chose for him when he was born, and calling him a boy, when he is actually a girl, and that she doesn't want to have to involve social services but she's worried she might have to if you continue to misgender your son and deny his real identity. And you know that she will, because it's happened before in a school near you, and you are afraid.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transactivist friends, your lefty male allies, the ones you stood beside and yellled 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with, with you shouting the loudest, because you wanted to show what a good ally you were, how inclusive, how progressive. Where are they now? Why, they are where they always were. Benefitting from the patriarchy. Enjoying the new, improved version of it that you helped them to build by crushing the resistance from the women who spoke up for their rights. This has all cost them nothing; it has made the world a better, easier place for men. It has cost you and your sisters who campaigned with them for virtue cookies, everything.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for your rights. Fighting to undo the damage.

I'll have your back, as I always have done.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
MyLittlePeach · 10/12/2017 17:00

WOW

SteX · 10/12/2017 17:02

@RedToothBrush

This is about the fact that those with loud voices and aggressive political tactics have forgotten or are willfully ignoring the fact that the most vulnerable in society have no platform on which to speak.

Bang on, I totally, wholeheartedly agree. 110%.

And again, this is so powerful and so well written. You should deffo have it published everywhere you can. Medium might be a good start. @carrotandcornsoup

SteX · 10/12/2017 17:07

Just wanted to share.

DD grew up unsure of her sexuality. She now identifies as bi, tending towards lesbian. Myself and her mum have always supported her. My brother, and her grandparents are strictly opposed stating "girls should only have boys. This isn't right". Something as parents we've rejected and age-appropriately thrown under the bus.

I'm happy DD is a late teen now and strong-minded. It would be so difficult if she had been born, say yesterday or in ten years. The landscape is changing dramatically and at breakneck speed. It's so very sad, and disempowering toward women.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 10/12/2017 17:11

Toby Young today compared Momentum to Britain First. Twitter has been on fire about it ever since.

On Radio 4 Today Programme earlier this week, the SU president said they would not invite feminists like Heather Brunskell Evans, Chimamanda Adichie, or Germain Greer to campuses for the same reason they wouldn't invite Britain First.

Fuck all notice was taken. What could possibly be the difference here?

notafish · 10/12/2017 17:11

What a powerful piece of writing. I hope it reaches a wide audience.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 10/12/2017 17:12

Too annoyed to make my point properly ^ - I thought about tweeting the irony, but if I do I will be a terf and a transphobe and quite possibly have a problem professionally. I just daren't!

It's not FAIR! It's all so fucking wrong!

MrGHardy · 10/12/2017 17:37

Us women are accused of being too emotional, when we've spent so much time and effort responding to the trans activists emotive outpourings ("But suicidal children!!!") with facts, statistics and cold logic.

In general, people nowadays accuse the other side of the very things they do / fall on short on themselves. E.g. Trump lies but calls everything else Fake News. Trans activists say they are being bullied, but in reality they are the ones who far more viciously bully their opposition. They are purely emotional and when someone reacts in the same manner, they say "you're too emotional". I find it disgusting. Accuse the others first so when they accuse you of it, it sounds like they're just copying you.

DrRisotto · 10/12/2017 18:12

The truth is, if you want people to take you seriously, you need to have a penis. Quite Hmm

RedToothBrush · 10/12/2017 18:17

Watch out we are getting into gendered language here with certain connotations attached to them.

Why is it 'emotional' not ''passionate'?

Why are women accused or making an emotional appeal but men lauded for making a passionate speech?

The best orators use both emotion and rational to make a case. Being emotive tends to work better on social media because it's more concise and soundbitey and people don't tend to want to read something lengthy. This is why if you are making a rational argument using an emotive appeal at the start, to draw people in and get them interested, is very effective. It also tends to use much simpler language rather than be more academic in nature.

ThisisaNC · 10/12/2017 18:20

The best orators use both emotion and rational to make a case. Being emotive tends to work better on social media because it's more concise and soundbitey and people don't tend to want to read something lengthy. This is why if you are making a rational argument using an emotive appeal at the start, to draw people in and get them interested, is very effective. It also tends to use much simpler language rather than be more academic in nature.

Absolutely spot on.

ThisisaNC · 10/12/2017 18:21

Fucks sake, why is my bold not working...

blackdoggotmytongue · 10/12/2017 18:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 10/12/2017 19:12

@blackdoggotmytongue, I live in fear of something similar happening at my place of work. Were you able to say anything? I don't in any way blame you if you couldn't. We have to pay the bills. Sad

Datun · 10/12/2017 19:13

literally willing to live their lives as dictated by socially constructed gender norms and to insist that everyone else do so too.

What you have on your hands, in your meeting, is an autogynephile. Not a transsexual.

AGP individuals have hijacked gender dysphoria and the transsexual narrative to legitimise their fetish. Late transitioning, straight men are typical of the cohort.

Just about every single transsexual who has gender dysphoria will have a completely different story. They are not the slightest bit interested in power, or forcing women to do anything.

They would like to be accepted as women. They appreciate the courtesy. It’s a fucking world away from this dominant, aggressive behaviour.

All the transexuals who post on mumsnet, write blogs, go on Twitter, constantly reiterate that they do not want to make women feel uncomfortable

Transgenderism has become an ideology that promotes a fetish.

braaaiiins · 10/12/2017 19:19

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

MyBrilliantDisguise · 10/12/2017 19:26

This has been the most interesting thread I've read on MN. Have you posted this on Twitter, OP?

blackdoggotmytongue · 10/12/2017 19:29

She was talking about restaurants and how awful it is to have women served first, and she often gets served ‘with the men’, or servers who say ‘how are we doing today ladies?’ who switch to ‘guys’ after she says ‘great thanks!’ It was essentially a complaint about not having her chair pulled out for her or being served first, not being treated ‘like a lady’. I thought I was on reasonably safe ground at that point so I asked if the problem was not rather a socially constructed difficulty with treating people differently by perceived gender, than in misgendering per se.
She reluctantly agreed yes, issued a huge but, and then discussed ‘dangerous spaces’ from the trans POV. Including the whole ‘I’m scared to walk home alone from a bar in case I beaten up for being trans’. Zero understanding of what it is like to live as a woman. Let alone be one.
I’m limited in the amount of questioning I can do in that environment. I am still entirely baffled why this meeting was called. It’s a fine arts post-sec. Pretty much anything goes. We’re hardly renowned for our out-dated traditionalism.

Candog · 10/12/2017 19:41

I hope it's ok to use your post, Carrot. I need to make that appointment to see my MP, and would like to give them this.

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 19:42

MyBrilliantDisguise, yes it’s been retweeted a few times I think. Thanks to all who have posted and who liked my post! X

OP posts:
daimbar · 10/12/2017 19:43

OP I am a feminist and have fought for women’s rights all my life and you don’t speak for me. Your post does not speak for all women. Where will I be in 15 years time? Standing by our trans sisters 🌈

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 19:43

Yes no problem CanDog!

OP posts:
carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 19:44

That’s fine daimbar, I don’t claim to speak for you.

OP posts:
blackdoggotmytongue · 10/12/2017 19:44

The real eye opener was the singular selfishness. As others have noted, it’s all about the feelings of the trans community, and not only do noone else’s feelings matter, but they are trashed as hate speech.
I assume (from the way she was speaking) that this transwoman’s patents struggled with how to reference their mutual past (the thirty plus years when he was their son). Her vitriol calling it bigotry and hate speech to refer to dead names just made me wince. I had a conversation last week where a friend told me her dd now wished to be known by a male name and use male pronouns, and that my friend had to ask her dd how to deal with the ‘before’ years. My friend was struggling because she had been asked to use male pronouns for that period too (and the new name). She’s doing her best, but having to revise years of memories screws with your head. She makes mistakes. The last thing she wants to do is hurt her child.
It was pretty bloody awful. Her dd (now ds) is one of the huge increase in young women who have been persuaded that their distaste for the trappings of adult femininity means they are a man, not a woman who refuses to toe the socially constructed gender line.
All of the people who turned feminism into a dirty word have a hand in this. There is nowhere else for gender critical women to go. It is now socially lauded to come out as transgender, and social suicide to admit to being a feminist.
I want to go and live in a cave.

laudanum · 10/12/2017 19:52

Oh for fuck's sake.

gonnabreakmyrustycage · 10/12/2017 19:53

@daimbar I'll be standing with you and them.

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