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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

a letter to the woman who called me a terf

1000 replies

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 07:01

To the woman who shrieked at me that I am a bigot and a terf and a hateful transphobe for defending women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and you're referred to throughout your pregnancy as a birthing individual, a pregnant person, and it makes you feel kind of dehumanised and you wish they'd just call you a woman, a mother, because that's what you are. But they're not allowed, because it's illegal to say only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Remember me when you give birth and you feel vulnerable and exposed and you really want a woman beside you who understands what you're going through and instead your midwife is a six foot man with stubble in a dress and you know he isn't a woman but you're not allowed to object, even when you need to be examined and you just want a woman to do it but you know you can't say anything because that would be hate speech, even though your body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who has lost her mind to dementia, goes into a care home and is told that her carer, Susan, is a woman, because you asked that she only be cared for by women. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that Susan is a man, and you know Susan is a man, but you cannot object, and she has to allow Susan to perform her intimate care, because to object would be hate speech.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because Lucas in her class, one of the fastest boys, has decided he identifies as female for now and so is allowed to run in her race, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, he will always beat her, and she can only ever hope for a silver medal now. Or bronze, if there is another Lucas.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's noone else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because if you do he'll say he's a woman and has as much right as you do to be in this toilet, a place where many years ago you might have come to feel safe.

Remember me when you go for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. You've put in the hours, you've worked so hard, you know you deserve it. And the position goes to Lola, who until last year was a 50 year old man. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have babies, or to deal with any health issues that you, a woman might face, like endometriosis, breast cancer, PND. Lola is a woman just like you, and your company are happy that they have fulfilled their quota of women members on the board.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for women committing rape and murder are on the increase, and now women carry out a much higher number of rapes and murders than they did when you were a teenager or a young woman. And you know that these 'women' are men and that the statistics are wrong, but to challenge this would be hate speech. Remember me too, when these women rapists are locked up with vulnerable women in female prisons and cannot escape, because to challenge the presence of the women rapists with penises in prison with them would be hate speech.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas and that his teacher said that because he likes playing with girls and dolls that maybe he is really a girl in the wrong body. And you think, no, you are just my wonderful, unique, son, and you were born in your own body. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that you are not validating your son's identity and that she's noticed you are still referring to him by the name you so carefully chose for him when he was born, and calling him a boy, when he is actually a girl, and that she doesn't want to have to involve social services but she's worried she might have to if you continue to misgender your son and deny his real identity. And you know that she will, because it's happened before in a school near you, and you are afraid.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transactivist friends, your lefty male allies, the ones you stood beside and yellled 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with, with you shouting the loudest, because you wanted to show what a good ally you were, how inclusive, how progressive. Where are they now? Why, they are where they always were. Benefitting from the patriarchy. Enjoying the new, improved version of it that you helped them to build by crushing the resistance from the women who spoke up for their rights. This has all cost them nothing; it has made the world a better, easier place for men. It has cost you and your sisters who campaigned with them for virtue cookies, everything.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for your rights. Fighting to undo the damage.

I'll have your back, as I always have done.

OP posts:
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13
WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 10/12/2017 11:58

Excellent letter carrot, well said.

hackmum · 10/12/2017 12:00

Beautifully written, OP. It says it all.

And am very glad to see Nick Cohen reference the trans debate in his article. I've been waiting for some time for a mainstream male journalist to write about this, and thought Cohen might just be the person for the job. Hope this is the first of many.

Ereshkigal · 10/12/2017 12:00

I'm wondering if this is because it has put the deep seated misogyny, which is at the heart of Trans Rights Activism, in clear, accessible language.

YY. The OP has demonstrated it in a stark, simple and powerful way. It needs to be widely shared.

HemlockSpartacus · 10/12/2017 12:02

Grinch Tell me, did you write the word "hysterical" in your post then think better?

Us women are accused of being too emotional, when we've spent so much time and effort responding to the trans activists emotive outpourings ("But suicidal children!!!") with facts, statistics and cold logic.

We've been called all the names under the sun, some have been threatened with violence for it, some have been doxxed, some have had their workplaces targeted, some have even had their children threatened, I think we are allowed to occasionally show some emotion.

I stand by the OP

Ereshkigal · 10/12/2017 12:03

Exactly. As RedToothbrush said, you won't win an emotive argument with facts alone. You need both.

sauceyorange · 10/12/2017 12:03

Great post, OP. Still Spartacus here too

PsychoPumpkin · 10/12/2017 12:04

I really hope this gets picked up by the media, it’s incredibly eye opening and terrifying.

TheSassyAssassin · 10/12/2017 12:17

Not posted here before (female but don't necessarily identify as a feminist) but read that post and felt compelled to say how brilliantly it was written OP Flowers I am scared for the future my young DD is going to experience. The incidents in my youth weren't great (understatement), I worry hers will be even harder to deal with Sad

TheMasterNotMargarita · 10/12/2017 12:22

People should be allowed to identify as they wish, but this identity should not be allowed to take precedence in law over their actual sex.

Absolutely!

MrsApplepants · 10/12/2017 12:23

Well done OP. Fantastic post. I’m an average woman, struggling to make sense of all this, feeling shit scared and helpless - what can we DO retort stop this runaway train of crazy?

MrsApplepants · 10/12/2017 12:24

Retort = to stop. Stupid autocorrect

DeleteOrDecay · 10/12/2017 12:32

Brilliant post. And scarily accurate the way things are going.

Thermostatpolice · 10/12/2017 12:32

Excellent letter OP.

I don't see this as catastrophising. A lot of the things that the letter describes are already happening.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 10/12/2017 12:35

That is possibly the most powerful writing I've ever seen on Mumsnet... or anywhere really. So terrifying true, Every.Last.Word. Star

DeleteOrDecay · 10/12/2017 12:36

While I appreciate where you are coming from things like this risk gender critical women being branded as hysterical

We already are. We just don't let it silence us because we know it's misogyny in action and we've heard it all before.

Nyx1 · 10/12/2017 12:40

LEMoriginal "I hate gender stereotypes"

ah. I have seen your posts before and been a bit confused what what your views are.

Trans is based on gender stereotypes. If I'd been 13 now, I'd have been advised I was really a boy with a boy brain.

guardianfree · 10/12/2017 12:40

Stands on table and applauds.
Thank you Carrot for capturing what is happening so well. Flowers

leyat · 10/12/2017 12:41

Thanks OP! What you have written so brilliantly covers the very real scenario women are facing. Everyone should read this letter.

OutComeTheWolves · 10/12/2017 12:42

Sorry Blind I don't think I worded my post very well. I meant more than as I think I'm a fairly moderate person, I tend to think that my opinion is the same as the majority of the U.K. & as a result have a bit of an 'ah it'll be ok' attitude. Ie The Brexit result took me by surprise because I didn't really know anyone who was voting leave and I didn't really look into anyone's opinion other than my own. I was very much in a bubble of people who already agreed with each other.

Likewise while I see a lot of trans threads on mumsnet, I don't know anyone in RL who is bothered by it al all (unless you count my mum who doesn't agree with anything except heterosexual white people). It's only recently certain issues relating to to trans topics have made me think that I need to change my attitude and be more proactive in voicing my thoughts and researching things for myself.

StealthPolarBear · 10/12/2017 12:46

Wolves I completely agree and drew exactly the same parallels near the beginning of this thread

MoodyTwo · 10/12/2017 12:50

OP your post is amazing, well put x

MarrowWang · 10/12/2017 12:51

I am another who is fine with male people doing smears and such. infact, in personal experience I have found that the males tend to be gentler. Though obviously that could be just down to the individual doctors.

But I am uncomfortable with expecting every woman to be happy with a male person. The choice should be there. And when taken to its logical conclusion, this whole trans juggernaut would mean the choice was not there.

ohtheholidays · 10/12/2017 12:54

Bloody well said Carrot!

I've had people argue with me that a man that has always lived as a man can any given day get changed in a dressing room(the one's with curtains and no doors)that I'm in that was labeled as for women and I have no right to be afraid, well I'm sorry and your right I wouldn't be afraid I'd be bloody terrified!

That's what happens when you take away any bit of security from a woman that had been raped multiple times as a child!

We have 5DC,3 Sons and 2 Daughters and they are free to pursue what ever career,relationship,sense of style they want and they know that,but the thing is we've not forced it down they're throats,we haven't jumped on any bandwagon our oldest always had far more Girl friends than Boy friends,he played with dolls and he had a play kitchen and dolls buggys and he's really artistic and wants to go into clothes design and he's straight,yet other people that are so far the other way would say he should be Gay and that we must be stopping him from discovering who he really is and then if they knew he used to like to dress in skirts and dresses when he was little they would definitely blow a gasket telling us that we were stopping him from being the "women" he so obviously is,it's those people that are the bigots not us!

I'm not a Terf and I'm no bloody Cis Women neither Angry I am a woman and that is all the title I need!

hipsterfun · 10/12/2017 13:09

Beautiful, OP.

Datun · 10/12/2017 13:14

If you want people to take you seriously you need to make a rational argument, not an emotive one.

Yeah, rational arguments haven’t worked though.

Claiming a male person is a female person couldn’t be more irrational.

Or understanding that 98 percent of sexually violent crime is committed by men until they say it isn’t.

Women have every right to be emotional.

But, more importantly, not only has the OP has given examples of things that are already happening, she has contextualised it to demonstrate how she could be personally affected.

Because this ideology is affecting real people, in real life. It’s not some philosophical debate that will never be applied.

The OP’s reaction is a logical, rational response to an outrageous premise.

Your criticism should be aimed at the ‘hysterical’, emotive ideology. Not her reaction to it.

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