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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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a letter to the woman who called me a terf

1000 replies

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 07:01

To the woman who shrieked at me that I am a bigot and a terf and a hateful transphobe for defending women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and you're referred to throughout your pregnancy as a birthing individual, a pregnant person, and it makes you feel kind of dehumanised and you wish they'd just call you a woman, a mother, because that's what you are. But they're not allowed, because it's illegal to say only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Remember me when you give birth and you feel vulnerable and exposed and you really want a woman beside you who understands what you're going through and instead your midwife is a six foot man with stubble in a dress and you know he isn't a woman but you're not allowed to object, even when you need to be examined and you just want a woman to do it but you know you can't say anything because that would be hate speech, even though your body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who has lost her mind to dementia, goes into a care home and is told that her carer, Susan, is a woman, because you asked that she only be cared for by women. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that Susan is a man, and you know Susan is a man, but you cannot object, and she has to allow Susan to perform her intimate care, because to object would be hate speech.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because Lucas in her class, one of the fastest boys, has decided he identifies as female for now and so is allowed to run in her race, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, he will always beat her, and she can only ever hope for a silver medal now. Or bronze, if there is another Lucas.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's noone else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because if you do he'll say he's a woman and has as much right as you do to be in this toilet, a place where many years ago you might have come to feel safe.

Remember me when you go for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. You've put in the hours, you've worked so hard, you know you deserve it. And the position goes to Lola, who until last year was a 50 year old man. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have babies, or to deal with any health issues that you, a woman might face, like endometriosis, breast cancer, PND. Lola is a woman just like you, and your company are happy that they have fulfilled their quota of women members on the board.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for women committing rape and murder are on the increase, and now women carry out a much higher number of rapes and murders than they did when you were a teenager or a young woman. And you know that these 'women' are men and that the statistics are wrong, but to challenge this would be hate speech. Remember me too, when these women rapists are locked up with vulnerable women in female prisons and cannot escape, because to challenge the presence of the women rapists with penises in prison with them would be hate speech.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas and that his teacher said that because he likes playing with girls and dolls that maybe he is really a girl in the wrong body. And you think, no, you are just my wonderful, unique, son, and you were born in your own body. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that you are not validating your son's identity and that she's noticed you are still referring to him by the name you so carefully chose for him when he was born, and calling him a boy, when he is actually a girl, and that she doesn't want to have to involve social services but she's worried she might have to if you continue to misgender your son and deny his real identity. And you know that she will, because it's happened before in a school near you, and you are afraid.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transactivist friends, your lefty male allies, the ones you stood beside and yellled 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with, with you shouting the loudest, because you wanted to show what a good ally you were, how inclusive, how progressive. Where are they now? Why, they are where they always were. Benefitting from the patriarchy. Enjoying the new, improved version of it that you helped them to build by crushing the resistance from the women who spoke up for their rights. This has all cost them nothing; it has made the world a better, easier place for men. It has cost you and your sisters who campaigned with them for virtue cookies, everything.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for your rights. Fighting to undo the damage.

I'll have your back, as I always have done.

OP posts:
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13
sleighbellend · 14/12/2017 14:12

Well of course they’re not a woman Confused if they were already a woman they wouldn’t have to ‘identify’ as one, they’d just be.

Italiangreyhound · 14/12/2017 14:14

Heartofglass I think some men will pretend to be women in order to abuse women. Especially men already in make prisons who woudl have a whole ton of reasons for wanting to get into a women's prison. But you don't need to take my word for it.

This may be of interest although may be known by many.

A letter to Maria Miller from Dr James Barrett (President, British Association of Gender Identity Specialists) dated 20 August 2015.

British Association Of Gender Identity Specialists - written evidence | PDF version (PDF143 KB)

The letter is ref TRA0149 and can be found at

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/women-and-equalities-committee/inquiries/parliament-2015/transgender-equality/publications/

If you want to check it out, once you click on the web page you go to the bottom, it says ‘Written evidence’, and you need to click ‘View all’ - then order by reference number to easily find ref TRA0149.

One of the key bits says...

"...the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences. It has been rather naïvely suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this. These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system and even (in one very well evidenced case that a highly concerned Prison Governor brought particularly to my attention) a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard. I am sure that the Governor concerned would be happy to talk about this."

Incidentally, the men who want to identify as women without going through the current check and process will also be a danger to transsexual women who have been through this process.

Italiangreyhound · 14/12/2017 14:15

men already in male prisons

BatShite · 14/12/2017 14:24

So are you assuming that men will pretend they want to be women, in order to abuse women

Yes they will. Do you have any reason to think they will not. Especially given its already happening.

Or that even though someone identifies as a woman, but they were born male that thats it, they arent a woman and therefore every other woman is going to feel uncomfortable with them?

Not every other women, but many women. Also I would say that being born male does mean thats it, you are not a woman. And vice versa for transmen.

Its important for words to...mean things. Else there is no point in words at all. What is a woman, if not an adult human female?

fantasmasgoria1 · 14/12/2017 14:36

So absolutely true.

PricklyBall · 14/12/2017 14:37

Once one adopts the Germaine Greer position (as I do) which is that transwomen are fully deserving of human rights, but not accepting that transwomen are women, and therefore that they ought to have women's rights, the solution to Winfield/Ponting becomes simple.

A past history of rape, sexual abuse or sex-stereotype motivated violence (e.g. abusing your wife while in a heterosexual relationship) should be a complete and utter disqualification to getting a GRC. Ever. If you are so steeped in toxic masculinity that you are prepared to beat, sexually abuse and rape women then you can never claim to be trans and expect to be taken seriously.

blackdoggotmytongue · 14/12/2017 15:17

Sadly i’ve heard male violence used as rationale - as proof of gender dysphoria, with the claim that they tried so hard to inhabit masculine behaviours, they take them to extremes, ‘acting’ more and more masculine (violence etc). But it was all an act, in desperation because they were trying so hard to be a man. Being unhappy makes you do terrible things.

It’s not much of an act when there is a woman on the other end getting beaten and raped.
I would fully support a policy which prevented sex offenders from changing sex. The fact that someone is allowed to rape and then claim to be a woman is abhorrent.

blackdoggotmytongue · 14/12/2017 15:22

It’s pretty much part of the script that a hyper-masculinised phase is claimed en route for late transitioners. Hence all the married men fathering children. They just want their father’s approval (which always consists of being a ‘real’ man, beer drinking, etc).
I have met a couple of transitioning/ing/ed soldiers who claim the only reason they were in the military was to prove their masculinity. But they now live as women.

PricklyBall · 14/12/2017 15:24

Yes, I've heard that supposed rationale too (in connection with, among others, a former boxing promoter who used to beat seven shades of shit out of his wife). My view is if it looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, is clearly brown and sticky and repulsive, then it is bullshit. Rape, sexual abuse, domestic violence, no GRC ever.

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2017 15:27

How pathetic. Stay classy, Shon Grin

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2017 15:30

It’s not much of an act when there is a woman on the other end getting beaten and raped.

No, exactly. That they think they deserve sympathy for this is disgusting. It's sociopathic narcissism.

LangCleg · 14/12/2017 15:41

A past history of rape, sexual abuse or sex-stereotype motivated violence (e.g. abusing your wife while in a heterosexual relationship) should be a complete and utter disqualification to getting a GRC. Ever.

I concur. If a man uses his penis as a weapon of sexual violence against a woman, he has chosen his gender. And, perhaps more to the point, he has imposed gender on his victim.

AsMenDclaredWomenTheirInferior · 14/12/2017 15:42

Who has been spreading this rumour around that TW are less dangerous to women and girls than other men?

We should really focus on this issue.

perfectlywretched · 14/12/2017 16:16

* A past history of rape, sexual abuse or sex-stereotype motivated violence (e.g. abusing your wife while in a heterosexual relationship) should be a complete and utter disqualification to getting a GRC. Ever. If you are so steeped in toxic masculinity that you are prepared to beat, sexually abuse and rape women then you can never claim to be trans and expect to be taken seriously*

100% agree. Ian Huntley is supposedly wanting to transition - I have faith common sense will always prevail in situations like that. Nobody has taken him seriously

Blanchefleur · 14/12/2017 16:21

I have met a couple of transitioning/ing/ed soldiers who claim the only reason they were in the military was to prove their masculinity. But they now live as women.

Yes, exactly the same here. I have met a transwoman who says she joined the army (as a man) in an attempt to 'make a man of herself', but it didn't work. She has now fully transitioned and is married to a man. I do wonder if/how much homophobia was behind her decisions - her story always strikes me as quite sad, as it does come across rather like attempts at gay conversion, finishing up by 'transing the gay away'.

MillicentFawcett · 14/12/2017 16:22

And yet people have taken Martin Ponting seriously. So much so that there is very little evidence online of the crimes he committed before he changed his name to Jessica Winfield. He raped two children but PinkNews is furious that he was deadnamed. Who gives a fuck about the children whose lives he destroyed though Hmm

perfectlywretched · 14/12/2017 16:42

MillicentFawcett that's disgraceful, can you share the pink news article please?

christinarossetti · 14/12/2017 16:43

Ian Huntley is asking other people in prison to call him 'Lian' but is showing no interest in transitioning, from the information that is in the public domain.

That's fine (well, as fine as anything about a serial child killer can be). As long as he isn't trying to increase his access to women, it doesn't matter what he calls himself.

Datun · 14/12/2017 16:47

Yeah, Shon Faye lost every ounce of credibility as a ‘woman’ when he said this.

a letter to the woman who called me a terf
MillicentFawcett · 14/12/2017 16:57

@perfectlywretched - here you go: www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/09/08/the-mail-just-implied-a-transgender-rapist-made-unwanted-sexual-advances-because-she-has-a-penis/

Apparently there is no connection between making 'unwanted sexual advances' and having a penis.

Basically Pink News takes the stance that TW are much less likely to commit crime than men. It's untrue. Half of all the prisoners who have transitioned inside have committed sexual offences.

Fekko · 14/12/2017 16:59

Did the TAAT go puft them? I can't see it today and was looking forward to reading it again as it was truly batshit.

MillicentFawcett · 14/12/2017 17:09

No, it's still there @Fekko: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3112123-A-letter-to-the-TERFs

Fekko · 14/12/2017 17:10

Oh good. I could do with a laugh (and top up on my insults/swear words)...

MrGHardy · 14/12/2017 17:37

Reading that twitter thread killed some of my brain cells. Incredible that they complain there is such a huge threat of violence from ‘TERFs’ yet the people killing TW are men. Not women. They are literal sheep, incapable of independent, critical thought and analysis.

Datun · 14/12/2017 17:55

MrGHardy

Women, particularly feminists, come in for all the abuse. They never, ever direct it towards the men who are abusing them.

That’s how you know they’re not women. That’s how you know the ideology is built on house of cards. There is no logic. That’s how you know men identifying as women still act like men who hate women.

( Sorry to bang on about men NAMALT and all that.)

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