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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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a letter to the woman who called me a terf

1000 replies

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 07:01

To the woman who shrieked at me that I am a bigot and a terf and a hateful transphobe for defending women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and you're referred to throughout your pregnancy as a birthing individual, a pregnant person, and it makes you feel kind of dehumanised and you wish they'd just call you a woman, a mother, because that's what you are. But they're not allowed, because it's illegal to say only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Remember me when you give birth and you feel vulnerable and exposed and you really want a woman beside you who understands what you're going through and instead your midwife is a six foot man with stubble in a dress and you know he isn't a woman but you're not allowed to object, even when you need to be examined and you just want a woman to do it but you know you can't say anything because that would be hate speech, even though your body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who has lost her mind to dementia, goes into a care home and is told that her carer, Susan, is a woman, because you asked that she only be cared for by women. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that Susan is a man, and you know Susan is a man, but you cannot object, and she has to allow Susan to perform her intimate care, because to object would be hate speech.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because Lucas in her class, one of the fastest boys, has decided he identifies as female for now and so is allowed to run in her race, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, he will always beat her, and she can only ever hope for a silver medal now. Or bronze, if there is another Lucas.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's noone else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because if you do he'll say he's a woman and has as much right as you do to be in this toilet, a place where many years ago you might have come to feel safe.

Remember me when you go for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. You've put in the hours, you've worked so hard, you know you deserve it. And the position goes to Lola, who until last year was a 50 year old man. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have babies, or to deal with any health issues that you, a woman might face, like endometriosis, breast cancer, PND. Lola is a woman just like you, and your company are happy that they have fulfilled their quota of women members on the board.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for women committing rape and murder are on the increase, and now women carry out a much higher number of rapes and murders than they did when you were a teenager or a young woman. And you know that these 'women' are men and that the statistics are wrong, but to challenge this would be hate speech. Remember me too, when these women rapists are locked up with vulnerable women in female prisons and cannot escape, because to challenge the presence of the women rapists with penises in prison with them would be hate speech.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas and that his teacher said that because he likes playing with girls and dolls that maybe he is really a girl in the wrong body. And you think, no, you are just my wonderful, unique, son, and you were born in your own body. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that you are not validating your son's identity and that she's noticed you are still referring to him by the name you so carefully chose for him when he was born, and calling him a boy, when he is actually a girl, and that she doesn't want to have to involve social services but she's worried she might have to if you continue to misgender your son and deny his real identity. And you know that she will, because it's happened before in a school near you, and you are afraid.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transactivist friends, your lefty male allies, the ones you stood beside and yellled 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with, with you shouting the loudest, because you wanted to show what a good ally you were, how inclusive, how progressive. Where are they now? Why, they are where they always were. Benefitting from the patriarchy. Enjoying the new, improved version of it that you helped them to build by crushing the resistance from the women who spoke up for their rights. This has all cost them nothing; it has made the world a better, easier place for men. It has cost you and your sisters who campaigned with them for virtue cookies, everything.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for your rights. Fighting to undo the damage.

I'll have your back, as I always have done.

OP posts:
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13
BeyondAssignation · 14/12/2017 13:01

Where is that post that Shon is sharing? I haven't seen it Confused

BatShite · 14/12/2017 13:04

Usually the twitter lot avoid mentioning mumsnet. As mentioning mumsnet sends people here curious, and then they read the actual arguments rather than 'transwomen are women, stfu bigot!' and tend to turn GC themselves Grin

RedToothBrush · 14/12/2017 13:04

What's the difference between FGM and transgender promotion of puberty blockers and hormones with a view to surgery later in life?

Noting both are cultural driven.

BeyondAssignation · 14/12/2017 13:04

(The threads move fast and there are multiple ones. I'm not suggesting it's made up)

BeyondAssignation · 14/12/2017 13:05

Weirdly people don't seem to move the other way, bat...!

BatShite · 14/12/2017 13:06

Yeah I have not seen that either. And am fairly certain MN would delete it. Unless its completely taken out of context of course. Showing only a snippet of an original post can change the meaning of whats being said.

Nuffaluff · 14/12/2017 13:07

I haven't seen that either - I'd remember that.
Has it been completely made up?

BatShite · 14/12/2017 13:07

Weirdly people don't seem to move the other way, bat...!

I have never ever seen someone move from GC to blind acceptance.

With the exception of the posrter last night that claimed reading that 'letter to the terfs' thread turned them from GC the opposite way. Which I took to be a pisstake rather than a serious post.

McTufty · 14/12/2017 13:07

I’m not saying it’s made up either beyondassignation, and I’ve not had the chance to read it in context, but I will say that I have to agree with Shon that it sounds a disgraceful thing to say. Wanting to protect sex segregated spaces (or at least have a discussion about it without cries of TERF) has nothing to do with violence or hate towards transwomen, or towards men for that matter.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 14/12/2017 13:12

Re mumsnet being discussed in other places this made me laugh Grin

"Because they're a bored, shrieking viper pit of a hive mind who aren't averse to doxxing someone who strays from the groupthink. Its a toxic pit of site frequented by the type of shithouse people who insist their little cuntspatula spawn are the centre of the universe and YOU WILL AGREE AND IF YOU DON'T YOU'RE A FASCIST AND PROBABLY A PAEDO and that their opinions need hearing and sharing and are right. Immutably right.

Forget hardcore feminists mumsnet makes them look reasonable. The worst thing is they'd deny it and look at you as though you were the one who were being just beastly to them. Then when you let your guard down they'd suck your spleen out through your arse and tear your spine out like a Mortal Kombat fatality"

On a thread about frozen roast potatoes Shock Confused Grin

www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/60aqzu/aunt_bessies_roast_potatoes_now_claim_they_are/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=comment_list

MentholBreeze · 14/12/2017 13:12

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2513077-owen-jones-on-trans-rights-again

There - found it

BatShite · 14/12/2017 13:13

I didn't read it as actually inciting violence. More being sad that not being violent is punished. Which it is really. Women are more accepting, so lets push their boundaries even more. Inch/mile. Etc.

I doubt anyone was serious, if the post does exist on here rather than be made up/twisted crap to show how horrible and transphobic we are. When there are literally thousands of well thought out posts on here on the topic, one that sounds dodgy is held up as proof that the site if vile.

MentholBreeze · 14/12/2017 13:13

it's from two years ago, so no-wonder no-one remembers - and the conversation just carried on around it.

IrkThePurist · 14/12/2017 13:13

McTufty Its not on this thread and it makes more sense when read in context.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2513077-owen-jones-on-trans-rights-again

BatShite · 14/12/2017 13:14

Yup. As I thought, in context its really nothing.

BatShite · 14/12/2017 13:15

Funny how Shon had to go back 2 years though, to find a 'transphobic' post Grin If we really are as vile as they reckon, should have raken seconds and be able to be plucked off any thread surely...

MentholBreeze · 14/12/2017 13:15

Gracious Fine - they have quite a fantastical opinion of us don't they!

If I read that, I think I'd have to come and have a look.

MentholBreeze · 14/12/2017 13:17

OK, I really have to work but...

MN really is a hive of unchecked transphobia. Anyone who dares suggest that users are out of line is shouted down and asked “what is a woman” over and over again. It’s depressing

THEN FUCKING ANSWER AND WE'LL STOP.

I can answer, it's pretty fucking important to laws to have an answer, why can't you bloody answer?

BeyondAssignation · 14/12/2017 13:18

So of all the threads active today and yesterday, they couldn't find a post to quote to show how howwible we all are - they had to find one that was two bloody years old, and from a poster I haven't seen for ages! (No idea if they are here and namechanged) Grin

BatShite · 14/12/2017 13:20

Its a reasonable question surely. There is no point at all continuing the discussion if someone does not have an actual; answer for 'what is a woman'. If you are going to tel us our definition is wrong, you need to tell us how it is wrong. And what the correct definition actually is

QueenLaBeefah · 14/12/2017 13:31

TRAs want to widen the bandwidth of what a woman is so why don't they answer and tell us what they've decided a woman is? It can't be that difficult to answer, surely?

hipsterfun · 14/12/2017 13:59

I’d be very interested to know how well these angry young transwomen get along with their mothers and sisters.

Italiangreyhound · 14/12/2017 13:59

perfectlywretched I don't hate anyone. But I am very sad that especially young people have this whole issue to get wrapped up in. And so very many young people are identifying as trans now, that must strike you as unusual, that this is not a natural phenomenon?

If all they do is wear hats and ask to be called 'he' that's one thing. But if they end up with a double mastectomy and end up having their womb removed and their vagina removed (I've heard how they do this, terrifying). If this is the only way for people to live then of course so be it, it is their body. But what if this is a cult, a trend, and in a short while a lot of women and men are going to wake up and realise they bought into a lie because they believed long hair and ballet for girls and short hair and football for boys!

Heartofglass12345 · 14/12/2017 14:07

So are you assuming that men will pretend they want to be women, in order to abuse women
Or that even though someone identifies as a woman, but they were born male that thats it, they arent a woman and therefore every other woman is going to feel uncomfortable with them?
I dont really see what youre getting at.

WTAFisthisshit · 14/12/2017 14:12

Totally off topic and not sure where to post my query, but do we know what the Huns think of all this? I know someone said they'd seen a trans widow thread across there but didn't want to link it to respect their privacy?

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