Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

a letter to the woman who called me a terf

1000 replies

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 07:01

To the woman who shrieked at me that I am a bigot and a terf and a hateful transphobe for defending women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and you're referred to throughout your pregnancy as a birthing individual, a pregnant person, and it makes you feel kind of dehumanised and you wish they'd just call you a woman, a mother, because that's what you are. But they're not allowed, because it's illegal to say only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Remember me when you give birth and you feel vulnerable and exposed and you really want a woman beside you who understands what you're going through and instead your midwife is a six foot man with stubble in a dress and you know he isn't a woman but you're not allowed to object, even when you need to be examined and you just want a woman to do it but you know you can't say anything because that would be hate speech, even though your body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who has lost her mind to dementia, goes into a care home and is told that her carer, Susan, is a woman, because you asked that she only be cared for by women. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that Susan is a man, and you know Susan is a man, but you cannot object, and she has to allow Susan to perform her intimate care, because to object would be hate speech.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because Lucas in her class, one of the fastest boys, has decided he identifies as female for now and so is allowed to run in her race, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, he will always beat her, and she can only ever hope for a silver medal now. Or bronze, if there is another Lucas.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's noone else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because if you do he'll say he's a woman and has as much right as you do to be in this toilet, a place where many years ago you might have come to feel safe.

Remember me when you go for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. You've put in the hours, you've worked so hard, you know you deserve it. And the position goes to Lola, who until last year was a 50 year old man. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have babies, or to deal with any health issues that you, a woman might face, like endometriosis, breast cancer, PND. Lola is a woman just like you, and your company are happy that they have fulfilled their quota of women members on the board.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for women committing rape and murder are on the increase, and now women carry out a much higher number of rapes and murders than they did when you were a teenager or a young woman. And you know that these 'women' are men and that the statistics are wrong, but to challenge this would be hate speech. Remember me too, when these women rapists are locked up with vulnerable women in female prisons and cannot escape, because to challenge the presence of the women rapists with penises in prison with them would be hate speech.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas and that his teacher said that because he likes playing with girls and dolls that maybe he is really a girl in the wrong body. And you think, no, you are just my wonderful, unique, son, and you were born in your own body. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that you are not validating your son's identity and that she's noticed you are still referring to him by the name you so carefully chose for him when he was born, and calling him a boy, when he is actually a girl, and that she doesn't want to have to involve social services but she's worried she might have to if you continue to misgender your son and deny his real identity. And you know that she will, because it's happened before in a school near you, and you are afraid.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transactivist friends, your lefty male allies, the ones you stood beside and yellled 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with, with you shouting the loudest, because you wanted to show what a good ally you were, how inclusive, how progressive. Where are they now? Why, they are where they always were. Benefitting from the patriarchy. Enjoying the new, improved version of it that you helped them to build by crushing the resistance from the women who spoke up for their rights. This has all cost them nothing; it has made the world a better, easier place for men. It has cost you and your sisters who campaigned with them for virtue cookies, everything.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for your rights. Fighting to undo the damage.

I'll have your back, as I always have done.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
HermioneWeasley · 12/12/2017 21:27

Hi Helen. What do you class as “hate and venom”?

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 12/12/2017 21:27

Where is the hate @Helen1111?

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 12/12/2017 21:29

I see @goodlittleally failed to answer what makes Danielle Muscato a woman. What a surprise. Not.

RaininSummer · 12/12/2017 21:30

I see no hate or venom Helen. Could you point it out please?

GretchenFranklin · 12/12/2017 21:33

Can you cut and paste examples of 'hate' and 'venom' please?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 12/12/2017 21:40

I dont think helen can cut and paste as this is her first post and she probably hasnt got to grips with it yet...certainly took me a while to get the hang of mumsnet

I expect she thought she would drop a ginormous plop and that would be that

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 12/12/2017 21:41

Although to be fair to helen

That shitty move by ally of posting that phograph was pretty hateful

anothernetter · 12/12/2017 21:43

This is the most amazing post I have ever read on this site. Thank you OP,

BatShite · 12/12/2017 21:49

That shitty move by ally of posting that phograph was pretty hateful

I would agree with this. Hateful indeed. Venomous, yes. Vile, also check.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 12/12/2017 21:50

Yes i was thinking vile bat

I was debating venomous...

RedToothBrush · 12/12/2017 21:51

Why would I want my sibling to be put at extra risk?

Even if I did hate them that much, if something did happen to them, it would just about kill my parents especially my Mum.

I actually think proposals to the GRA put my sibling at MORE not less risk. Far from offering more rights, dubious behaviour by men threatens to put my sibling in a position where they could be the target of a backlash resulting from this deliberate misuse of the new system.

The current system actually offers protection that self identification won't.

That's the bitter irony that those who shout transphobe at me, do not seem to grasp.

BeyondAssignation · 12/12/2017 21:58

Funny how good little ally used at least three names (their original one, "agoodlittleally" and "goodlittleally") as well as originally being banned for potential sockpuppeting, and now just as they get an extremely distasteful post removed and disappear again, another new poster arrives. Isn't it.

Also funny that mimmymum (mermaid fanatic) on Twitter's name is "trans ally mum" at the moment, and also seems to actually be Helen.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 12/12/2017 22:00

That is funny beyond

Weird coincidences

Nuffaluff · 12/12/2017 22:02

You can spot an mra a mile off. It's always 'woman's name ' followed by number. They must think we're thick.
Try harder please, it's too easy.

BeyondAssignation · 12/12/2017 22:07

Helen also has ishoos with mn. Just google mimmymum and mumsnet

vesuvia · 12/12/2017 22:20

Really good letter, OP.

daimbar wrote - "Trans people would have equal rights, just like gay people who faced similar discrimination 15 ago."

There are companies that offer holiday accommodation to gay men only, but I do not see lesbians campaigning for changes in the law to give lesbians the right to access these gay-men-only hotels. They respect the gay men's space. Lesbian tourists seem to be setting a good example that transactivists could learn from, if transactivists want to pay more than lipservice to the parallels that they claim exist between transgender rights and homosexual rights.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 13/12/2017 06:45

Right off topic a bit but can someone explain something to me?

I keep seeing that trans women's brains are similar to women's brains, I see this a lot on twitter. But, if a trait is in a male brain AND a female main then doesn't it mean that it's a trait present in brains of both sexes? Why would you use that to conclude that males are females? Fox has paws, bears have paws, foxes are bears, or do foxes and bears have paws?

And, and , and, WHEN did we start sexing our species based on vague data about brains anyway? We don't, we just don't

StealthPolarBear · 13/12/2017 07:12

Very good point damn.
I think the answer is that logic doesn't have much input into these arguments.

HermioneWeasley · 13/12/2017 07:51

damn the argument about TIM brains being similar to women’s assumes there are inherent sex based brain differences, a hypothesis for which there is zero evidence.

There are some small studies that have found differences, or found than TIMs have an area of white matter in between what is found in men and women, etc etc, but the meta analysis shows nothing.

It’s a misogynist trope that you should feel free to ridicule.

AdalindSchade · 13/12/2017 08:10

TIMs don't have female brains, or brains that are more similar to women than men. That's fake science and has no evidence to back it up.
there is no innately female or male brain, other than the fact that by being in a male body the brain is also male. Brains develop differently in men and women over the life course due to socialisation and the effects of hormones. TIMs often claim they were immune to male socialisation or somehow absorbed female socialisation or that they have higher levels of oestrogen naturally than other men, neither of which are actually true.

Aeroflotgirl · 13/12/2017 09:34

Please please please, can we have a glossary for all these abbreviations as I am totally lost😯

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/12/2017 09:37

TIM = trans-identified male (because not all trans people identify as the opposite sex)

BeyondAssignation · 13/12/2017 09:37

Tim = trans identifying males
(Unfortunate for those formerly named 'Tim' though!)

ferntwist · 13/12/2017 09:38

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

ferntwist · 13/12/2017 09:38

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.