Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

a letter to the woman who called me a terf

1000 replies

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 07:01

To the woman who shrieked at me that I am a bigot and a terf and a hateful transphobe for defending women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and you're referred to throughout your pregnancy as a birthing individual, a pregnant person, and it makes you feel kind of dehumanised and you wish they'd just call you a woman, a mother, because that's what you are. But they're not allowed, because it's illegal to say only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Remember me when you give birth and you feel vulnerable and exposed and you really want a woman beside you who understands what you're going through and instead your midwife is a six foot man with stubble in a dress and you know he isn't a woman but you're not allowed to object, even when you need to be examined and you just want a woman to do it but you know you can't say anything because that would be hate speech, even though your body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who has lost her mind to dementia, goes into a care home and is told that her carer, Susan, is a woman, because you asked that she only be cared for by women. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that Susan is a man, and you know Susan is a man, but you cannot object, and she has to allow Susan to perform her intimate care, because to object would be hate speech.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because Lucas in her class, one of the fastest boys, has decided he identifies as female for now and so is allowed to run in her race, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, he will always beat her, and she can only ever hope for a silver medal now. Or bronze, if there is another Lucas.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's noone else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because if you do he'll say he's a woman and has as much right as you do to be in this toilet, a place where many years ago you might have come to feel safe.

Remember me when you go for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. You've put in the hours, you've worked so hard, you know you deserve it. And the position goes to Lola, who until last year was a 50 year old man. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have babies, or to deal with any health issues that you, a woman might face, like endometriosis, breast cancer, PND. Lola is a woman just like you, and your company are happy that they have fulfilled their quota of women members on the board.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for women committing rape and murder are on the increase, and now women carry out a much higher number of rapes and murders than they did when you were a teenager or a young woman. And you know that these 'women' are men and that the statistics are wrong, but to challenge this would be hate speech. Remember me too, when these women rapists are locked up with vulnerable women in female prisons and cannot escape, because to challenge the presence of the women rapists with penises in prison with them would be hate speech.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas and that his teacher said that because he likes playing with girls and dolls that maybe he is really a girl in the wrong body. And you think, no, you are just my wonderful, unique, son, and you were born in your own body. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that you are not validating your son's identity and that she's noticed you are still referring to him by the name you so carefully chose for him when he was born, and calling him a boy, when he is actually a girl, and that she doesn't want to have to involve social services but she's worried she might have to if you continue to misgender your son and deny his real identity. And you know that she will, because it's happened before in a school near you, and you are afraid.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transactivist friends, your lefty male allies, the ones you stood beside and yellled 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with, with you shouting the loudest, because you wanted to show what a good ally you were, how inclusive, how progressive. Where are they now? Why, they are where they always were. Benefitting from the patriarchy. Enjoying the new, improved version of it that you helped them to build by crushing the resistance from the women who spoke up for their rights. This has all cost them nothing; it has made the world a better, easier place for men. It has cost you and your sisters who campaigned with them for virtue cookies, everything.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for your rights. Fighting to undo the damage.

I'll have your back, as I always have done.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Thermostatpolice · 12/12/2017 19:07

*Why didn't Muscato

BatShite · 12/12/2017 19:08

Some women have beards, get over it.

No women have penises. Get over it.

goodlittleally · 12/12/2017 19:09

Please I don’t find those pictures shocking. Was I supposed to? What is it exactly about these people that make you so fearful?

B0033 · 12/12/2017 19:09

Putting Ms Lair's photo up like that was shameful. What a horrible thing to do.

B0033 · 12/12/2017 19:10

*Kaur

BatShite · 12/12/2017 19:11

What is it exactly about these people that make you so fearful?

As a feminist, I would assume you would know the reason why female people are fearful of male people. Unless of course, you are not a feminist. Which would be a shock!

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 12/12/2017 19:12

I'm not asking you to find them shocking @goodlittleally, I'm asking you in what way is that person a woman. Why won't you answer the question? If you really do believe transwomen are women then it should be a really easy question for you to answer.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 12/12/2017 19:13

In one way is this person a woman @goodlittleally.

Let's see if you can actually answer the question this time instead of derailing Grin

a letter to the woman who called me a terf
a letter to the woman who called me a terf
PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 12/12/2017 19:14

*what

?

BeyondAssignation · 12/12/2017 19:20

Every time I see that, my mind goes "Roooooxanne..." Grin

MrsFogi · 12/12/2017 19:20

What makes me incredibly sad is that this is absolutely such an amazing and accurate piece of writing that I am aching to share on my FB page, twitter feed and anywhere else I possibly can. But.....to do so would risk the financial stability of my family given the risk of being hounded and reported to my employer by the trans lobby. It seems that I have already lost the right to free speech in what supposedly is a modern democracy with, in theory, equal rights for women.

MillicentFawcett · 12/12/2017 19:26

If you're a woman, I'm Danielle Muscato

Thermostatpolice · 12/12/2017 19:29

MillicentFawcett Grin

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 12/12/2017 19:31

B0033

The photo has been taken down now

BatShite · 12/12/2017 19:43

I shared this on my facebook and got a few positive replies. I got one private message calling me transphobic. And a few private messages saying they agree with me but don't dare be open about it for fear of being branded a bigot.

I am fairly openly gender critical on facebook, though not quite as openly as on here. I never talk of AGP on there, though I do plan to at some stage. baby steps. So many people on my friends list (and friends in real life) are happy to have ithe actual problems brought to their attention as before they were very much 'transwomen are women, shut up bigot!' without actually thinking about what 'terfs' were saying. Exactly the way I started out myself. I am so grateful for MN allowing actual debate on this topic, as honestly, I would never have known until it was too late. I did not do twitter. The transwomen I know (insluding my family member) are all...transsexual, rather than 'my penis is female' nutters. Lesbian friends had been having a hard time of it for a while, but had never told me due to my almost militant trans ally-ness. As soon as MN opened my eyes and I started 'coming out' to those I know as having the scales lifted...my lesbian friends told me of their recent horrific experiences with those claiming to be trans. It actually really upset me that they never spoke to me before (even when one of them was seriously assaulted by a 'woman with a penis' for refusing PIV) but I could see where they were coming from as I was so...unthinking about the whole thing that there is actually a chance I would have branded them transphobic. Its so horrible to think about now.

B0033 · 12/12/2017 19:48

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 thanks for the heads up. Glad it's gone.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2017 20:02

Batshit, this is the way op has envisiged things are going. It is not transphobic, its a fact. Its fact that a transwomen, is biologically a man, and a transman, is biologically a woman.

BatShite · 12/12/2017 20:12

I know its not transphobic. I didn't bother arguing with the idiot who said it was. A swift 'get fucked , don't send this rubbish to my inbox' was suffice for me. I can't be bothered arguing with numpties who think that self-ID is a great idea and everyone who objects is a vile bigot. Except on here, whilst I am lurking/posting mainly when I have nothing else to do. People on my facebook can come call me a transphobe to my face if they feel that way genuinely and I will have a conversation with them (indeed this is quite how I changed so many friends minds actually, from 'you are a bigot' to 'oh yes, there are clearly some issues here aren't there)

Ereshkigal · 12/12/2017 20:21

Transwomen are transwomen. Not women. Your slip of the tongue and use of 'my' implies that deep down you know. You know this.

Yes exactly. Huge eyebrow raise at that!

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 12/12/2017 20:53

Will everyone be cool with trans race, trans age? A man might identify as a little girl, would that be okay? Could he play with other little girls, go to school with them? If not, why not?

You are what you are, not what you think you are. My social condition makes me polite but when I see my daughters rights being eroded so that men can have more rights I get cross.

SparklyUnicornTractors · 12/12/2017 21:17

If this is pushed through then whether intentionally or not it opens the door for sexual fetish to be a legitimate choice and muddies the waters of other people's rights not to be involved in it. It also will begin to mess with issues of consent, not least that women may not have boundaries around their privacy or choice of sex in intimate care, but also that children have the right to make choices about their bodies without the permission needed of their parents or guardians.

Stephonknee is a well known transwoman in Canada who has advised and spoken on trans issues. She identifies as a six year old little girl who likes anal sex with her 'daddy'. If 'transwomen are women' extends to 'transchildren are children' with a bit of science thrown in then can Stephonknee act out her BDSM age play sex life freely at your after school club and involve your children in expressing herself?

SparklyUnicornTractors · 12/12/2017 21:21
  • Legitimate choice to live in the public sphere, sorry, very badly worded. Of course its a legitimate choice between consenting adults. The issue is acting it out in public involving other people who happen to be present with no interest in their consent, and this being viewed as legitimate self expression of an authentic self which must be respected.
BatShite · 12/12/2017 21:21

I sometimes wonder if this push for transgender to be based on nothing but a feeling in someones head..ie no medical diagnosis of dysphoria and such....might be a prelude to 'trans-age' men deciding they are actually 15 and as such sleeping with young teens (or worse) and expecting for it to be 'legal' as both are underage.

I know that sounds like paranoid nonsense, but the transing kids part of it has concerned me for a while now. Purposely keeping young people prepubescent, whilst they are actually legal age..well its just dodgy as fuck.

hipsterfun · 12/12/2017 21:23

The more I think about it, the more I believe Danielle is a selfless and committed feminist ally.

Helen1111 · 12/12/2017 21:25

This is just vile. So horrible to see so much hate and venom here.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread