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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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a letter to the woman who called me a terf

1000 replies

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 07:01

To the woman who shrieked at me that I am a bigot and a terf and a hateful transphobe for defending women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and you're referred to throughout your pregnancy as a birthing individual, a pregnant person, and it makes you feel kind of dehumanised and you wish they'd just call you a woman, a mother, because that's what you are. But they're not allowed, because it's illegal to say only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Remember me when you give birth and you feel vulnerable and exposed and you really want a woman beside you who understands what you're going through and instead your midwife is a six foot man with stubble in a dress and you know he isn't a woman but you're not allowed to object, even when you need to be examined and you just want a woman to do it but you know you can't say anything because that would be hate speech, even though your body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who has lost her mind to dementia, goes into a care home and is told that her carer, Susan, is a woman, because you asked that she only be cared for by women. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that Susan is a man, and you know Susan is a man, but you cannot object, and she has to allow Susan to perform her intimate care, because to object would be hate speech.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because Lucas in her class, one of the fastest boys, has decided he identifies as female for now and so is allowed to run in her race, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, he will always beat her, and she can only ever hope for a silver medal now. Or bronze, if there is another Lucas.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's noone else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because if you do he'll say he's a woman and has as much right as you do to be in this toilet, a place where many years ago you might have come to feel safe.

Remember me when you go for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. You've put in the hours, you've worked so hard, you know you deserve it. And the position goes to Lola, who until last year was a 50 year old man. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have babies, or to deal with any health issues that you, a woman might face, like endometriosis, breast cancer, PND. Lola is a woman just like you, and your company are happy that they have fulfilled their quota of women members on the board.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for women committing rape and murder are on the increase, and now women carry out a much higher number of rapes and murders than they did when you were a teenager or a young woman. And you know that these 'women' are men and that the statistics are wrong, but to challenge this would be hate speech. Remember me too, when these women rapists are locked up with vulnerable women in female prisons and cannot escape, because to challenge the presence of the women rapists with penises in prison with them would be hate speech.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas and that his teacher said that because he likes playing with girls and dolls that maybe he is really a girl in the wrong body. And you think, no, you are just my wonderful, unique, son, and you were born in your own body. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that you are not validating your son's identity and that she's noticed you are still referring to him by the name you so carefully chose for him when he was born, and calling him a boy, when he is actually a girl, and that she doesn't want to have to involve social services but she's worried she might have to if you continue to misgender your son and deny his real identity. And you know that she will, because it's happened before in a school near you, and you are afraid.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transactivist friends, your lefty male allies, the ones you stood beside and yellled 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with, with you shouting the loudest, because you wanted to show what a good ally you were, how inclusive, how progressive. Where are they now? Why, they are where they always were. Benefitting from the patriarchy. Enjoying the new, improved version of it that you helped them to build by crushing the resistance from the women who spoke up for their rights. This has all cost them nothing; it has made the world a better, easier place for men. It has cost you and your sisters who campaigned with them for virtue cookies, everything.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for your rights. Fighting to undo the damage.

I'll have your back, as I always have done.

OP posts:
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AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 12/12/2017 18:26

Ally

"so why would you give a shit that trans women are being attacked and killed."

Care to share your statistics about transwomen in the UK being attacked and/or killed? In say the last 10years? DO you know? I'd be interested to find out if you do.

While you are googling, have a look at how many biological females are attacked and/or killed in the UK.

Then compare the numbers. It's quite an education

Then ask yourself why you are asking women "why would you give a shit "

OrderMeACurry · 12/12/2017 18:27

@goodlittleally could you please stop referring to transwomen as real women or even just women? This may (or may not) come as a surprise to you but a lot of us find it extremely disrespectful.

Goatgirly · 12/12/2017 18:28

I can well believe that the majority of trans women are on our side, trans women like Miranda Yardley for instance, who is against the current TRA agenda.
Unfortunately, it's the vocal minority who are campaigning for our rights in a way that put women at risk, and you said yourself that trans women are at risk from men, well, so are we, and there is evidence that trans women commit sexual violence at the same rate as non-trans men, so why should women step aside quietly knowing these facts, and the facts that the trans agenda spells erasure of women which, even at a small level would not be ok.

goodlittleally · 12/12/2017 18:30

27 trans women killed in the US this year, the frequency of serious assaults in the UK, sadly means it’s only a matter of time:

metro.co.uk/2017/11/01/transgender-woman-describes-being-assaulted-by-neighbour-in-random-attack-7046053/amp/

OrderMeACurry · 12/12/2017 18:33

27 trans women killed in the US this year

And how many women were killed in the US?

the frequency of serious assaults in the UK

And who is doing the assaulting? Is it men or women?

I have only ever been assaulted by men.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2017 18:34

good, very weak and flawed comparisons with the op. A lot of what op has talked about, is hardening, can you not see that! It's a patient's rights to have a woman, not a transwoman examining their most intimate parts if they so wish. Only a biological female can understand and empathise, if for example they have problems with their periods, as they have them and know what it's like.

How do you know, that man who identifies as female one day, is doing so as he can invade female spaces and attack them.

The trans community, really have to fight for their own rights as trans men and women, not get in the back of the women's rights movement.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/12/2017 18:35

goodlittleally

That's a hell of a lot less assaults than than those on women. Additionally, I'm pretty sure most women on this thread would back campaigns for safe spaces for transpeople. It's just that those safe spaces should not come at the expense of another group.

goodlittleally · 12/12/2017 18:35

Assigned I am not disputing that women are under threat, just pointing out that trans women are too.

And women in the UK are being killed and assaulted by men! Not trans women or ‘men in dresses’ who are simply trying to exist.

Blanchefleur · 12/12/2017 18:35

Seriously, ally, why can't you understand that when we say that we oppose legislation that will facilitate predatory men accessing women and girls when they are vulnerable that we are NOT saying that trans women are predatory men!!

Why are you sorry that some women prefer to have a female health care provider for intimate care? You don't get to decide who gets to touch another woman's naked body. My gynaecologist is a man. I would never dream of telling another woman that I am sorry that she prefers to be examined by a woman. Her body, her boundaries.

Don't you understand that we are not saying that all transwomen have a fetish? We know perfectly well that some people genuinely have body dysmorphia/gender dysphoria. We have every sympathy with them. We have friends, relatives and children who are suffering. Some of us on this board are transwomen.

We also know that there is another, distinct group of men who do not experience any dysphoria but for whom cross-dressing is a sexual fetish - AGP. We know this because they admit it, and write about it freely on social media. They write in detail about practising their fetish in women's safe spaces for sexual thrills. They are generally heterosexual men who have no intention of having surgery. Some of us on this group have been in relationships with such AGP men (myself included). They are now included under the trans umbrella, which previously only covered the genuine transsexuals (the ones with dysmorphia). These men do represent a threat to women. Can you see the difference?

Violence against women and girls is a huge concern to us. Yes, we know that transwomen are also victims. But this violence is committed by men, not women. Women are not to blame.

The solution to male violence does not involve allowing men (whether they are transwomen or not) into spaces where women and girls are vulnerable. This does not make anybody safer. The violent men can follow the transwomen right in there.

If transwomen are in danger from male violence (which they are, we do not dispute that), then men's spaces need to be made safer. Why does nobody ever seem to want to do this? It is a male problem and needs to be addressed at its root. You won't solve it by moving the problem elsewhere.

guardianfree · 12/12/2017 18:36

ally
I don't see the no platformers, the haters, those who dismiss women's legitimate questions and concerns and call us TERFS and those who actively promote children taking off label drugs as 'on our side' at all.
They are totally opposed to the rights of women. They are right wing. misogynistic and for the last few years have been promoting hatred of women with their silencing, no platforming, complaints about our shared language, biology, even the anti Trump pink pussy hats were deemed transphobic.
There is NO compromise with them.
It is only recently that women - who have been so accommodating and cheerfully welcomed transgender women into feminist groups of all types - only to discover that this is not enough. We now have to centre men and deny scientific and biological reality if we are to be true feminists and any woman who dares to raise any legitimate concerns are turned on.

'When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time (said Maya Angelou).
Transactivists have played their cards of hatred and violence already. They have demonstrated time and time again that theirs is the only voice that they will allow to be heard. They are totally anti - democratic. And finally women are hearing this.

Datun · 12/12/2017 18:36

@goodlittleally

Let’s just cut to the chase.

Women don’t want men identifying as women in their changing rooms. You are concerned with the safety of transwomen.

Here’s the question:

Why don’t you and they campaign for third space?

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 12/12/2017 18:37

When I come across you in the ladies toilet when I’m alone, late at night I won’t scream in horror, I won’t assume you are there to assault me.

Why would people scream in horror at the sight of a transwoman in the ladies toilet? You do realise that transwomen have been using ladies toilets for years, right?

goodlittleally · 12/12/2017 18:37

It is men that are the threat to women and trans women so let them share our spaces. It’s surely not that much to ask?

Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2017 18:37

A trans woman is still a man, unless he has undergone gender reassignment, so therefore I would not be happy for a man Todo an intimate examination in me without a chaperone, or have the right to request a biological female nurse or Dr

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/12/2017 18:38

And women in the UK are being killed and assaulted by men! Not trans women or ‘men in dresses’ who are simply trying to exist

And how do you tell the difference between a man and a transwoman?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/12/2017 18:38

Sorry, that should have been, how do you tell the difference between a man pretending to be a transwoman and a transwoman?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/12/2017 18:39

It is men that are the threat to women and trans women so let them share our spaces. It’s surely not that much to ask?

How do you tell the difference between a man pretending to be a transwoman and a transwoman?

Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2017 18:40

You are missing the point, trans women are men, you cannot change biology, they have xy cells in every cell of their body, yiu cannot change that! that is why they are called trans women or trans men, to distinguish them from biological males and females.

goodlittleally · 12/12/2017 18:41

I’m done going round in circles. I just ask you to think before slamming the door in the face of trans people. They are human beings too.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 12/12/2017 18:41

I’m sorry they ask for a ‘real woman’ midwife when you are a real woman

Really? So you think this person is a woman?

a letter to the woman who called me a terf
Aeroflotgirl · 12/12/2017 18:41

Exactly it's all, I agree.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 12/12/2017 18:42

Sorry, forgot to include a picture

a letter to the woman who called me a terf
Thermostatpolice · 12/12/2017 18:42

"It’s surely not that much to ask?"

It really is too much to ask. For all the many well researched and rational arguments detailed above.

But separate, safe spaces for trans people? Measures that make male spaces less intimidating for transwomen? Of course! Sign me up. I'll campaign with them all the way.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 12/12/2017 18:42

Oops, no I didn't Blush

GrandmadamGlitch · 12/12/2017 18:43

But Ally, how can we know who is a genuine transwoman sharing our spaces, and who is a man wrongly claiming to be trans?

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