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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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a letter to the woman who called me a terf

1000 replies

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 07:01

To the woman who shrieked at me that I am a bigot and a terf and a hateful transphobe for defending women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and you're referred to throughout your pregnancy as a birthing individual, a pregnant person, and it makes you feel kind of dehumanised and you wish they'd just call you a woman, a mother, because that's what you are. But they're not allowed, because it's illegal to say only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Remember me when you give birth and you feel vulnerable and exposed and you really want a woman beside you who understands what you're going through and instead your midwife is a six foot man with stubble in a dress and you know he isn't a woman but you're not allowed to object, even when you need to be examined and you just want a woman to do it but you know you can't say anything because that would be hate speech, even though your body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who has lost her mind to dementia, goes into a care home and is told that her carer, Susan, is a woman, because you asked that she only be cared for by women. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that Susan is a man, and you know Susan is a man, but you cannot object, and she has to allow Susan to perform her intimate care, because to object would be hate speech.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because Lucas in her class, one of the fastest boys, has decided he identifies as female for now and so is allowed to run in her race, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, he will always beat her, and she can only ever hope for a silver medal now. Or bronze, if there is another Lucas.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's noone else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because if you do he'll say he's a woman and has as much right as you do to be in this toilet, a place where many years ago you might have come to feel safe.

Remember me when you go for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. You've put in the hours, you've worked so hard, you know you deserve it. And the position goes to Lola, who until last year was a 50 year old man. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have babies, or to deal with any health issues that you, a woman might face, like endometriosis, breast cancer, PND. Lola is a woman just like you, and your company are happy that they have fulfilled their quota of women members on the board.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for women committing rape and murder are on the increase, and now women carry out a much higher number of rapes and murders than they did when you were a teenager or a young woman. And you know that these 'women' are men and that the statistics are wrong, but to challenge this would be hate speech. Remember me too, when these women rapists are locked up with vulnerable women in female prisons and cannot escape, because to challenge the presence of the women rapists with penises in prison with them would be hate speech.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas and that his teacher said that because he likes playing with girls and dolls that maybe he is really a girl in the wrong body. And you think, no, you are just my wonderful, unique, son, and you were born in your own body. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that you are not validating your son's identity and that she's noticed you are still referring to him by the name you so carefully chose for him when he was born, and calling him a boy, when he is actually a girl, and that she doesn't want to have to involve social services but she's worried she might have to if you continue to misgender your son and deny his real identity. And you know that she will, because it's happened before in a school near you, and you are afraid.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transactivist friends, your lefty male allies, the ones you stood beside and yellled 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with, with you shouting the loudest, because you wanted to show what a good ally you were, how inclusive, how progressive. Where are they now? Why, they are where they always were. Benefitting from the patriarchy. Enjoying the new, improved version of it that you helped them to build by crushing the resistance from the women who spoke up for their rights. This has all cost them nothing; it has made the world a better, easier place for men. It has cost you and your sisters who campaigned with them for virtue cookies, everything.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for your rights. Fighting to undo the damage.

I'll have your back, as I always have done.

OP posts:
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13
PersianCatLady · 12/12/2017 09:48

AGoodLittleAlly
Sorry, are we not allowed to have our own opinions?

titchy · 12/12/2017 09:48

1dad - no one claims genuine trans women are pervs. What we are worried about is allowing men to legally access female safe spaces. Because the violent ones will do just that. Not the genuine trans ones, but the violent pretend ones.

RedToothBrush · 12/12/2017 09:53

Let's talk about how many rapes and sexual assaults go unreported. Then let's talk about how how medical consent for women has a dubious history with much unreported. Often because women fail to understand that the law has been broken and what their rights are. Then there are the institutional cover ups.

If this situation has anything in common with other stories it's more Rochdale than general Daily Mail Islamophobic hate. A small number of people who committed a large number of crimes with absolute impunity because they felt untouchable. a bunch of bureaucrats were jobs worth's and looked at identity first the crime second and didn't see the victims as victims. They lacked the imagination to see the scale of the problem (which is carried out by different ethnic groups in other parts of the country). If the victims were victims they 'should have reported it' type mentality.

If women want to move they should just request it...

The echoes are eeriely familiar alright. But not of homophobia or of racism but of a huge scandal in the making, in which major institutions fail in their duty of care.

1DAD2KIDS · 12/12/2017 09:54

titchy There are lots of difficult issuses around this. It does seem an imposible task to reconsile a comprimise that is fairest to all. As with any comprise i guess no one would be completely happy. I not saying all on here hate transwomen or don't have valid concerns. It's more the nature of the original post and some of the retoric by some. Very inflametry and creating a distorted and disproportionate picture aimed at whipping up a hateful frenzy rather that a sensible debate.

Ereshkigal · 12/12/2017 09:56

Go away Dad. No one cares what you think. We don't need you to tell us what you feel about women defending women's rights. It's nothing to do with you, as a man.

Datun · 12/12/2017 09:56

1DAD2KIDS

Men are not a minority group!

This is not about a subset of men. This is about all men. Specifically, criminal men. All sexually violent men. All rapists, paedophiles.

If you want to call criminally violent men a subset, then that’s the set we’re talking about.

It is ONLY men who want to violate women’s boundaries who will exploit the law.

You seem to have difficulty acknowledging that there are very many predatory men out there. Because you think we are saying they are trans. We’re not.

Being trans doesn’t make you a predator (AGP excepted).

Being a man does.

(NAMALT, and yes two percent of sex criminals are women).

titchy · 12/12/2017 09:57

The current legal position works just fine.

The TRA movement however is chipping away regardless and as a result some women and children are suffering hugely. Probably not many. But enough.

Lancelottie · 12/12/2017 09:58

What way are you going to compromise, 1Dad?

oohloolalala · 12/12/2017 09:58

I’m place marking so I can read this properly when I haven’t got a toddler using me as a climbing frame but THANK YOU for this thread!!!

agoodlittleally · 12/12/2017 10:00

Persian opinions are fine but inciting hate is not and the OP is inciting hate against transgender people.

There are some very intelligent arguments for both sides on this thread. And some not so much!

sleighbellend · 12/12/2017 10:00

I do wonder what it is about trans activism which draws the support of MRAs like 1Dad. What a mystery Hmm

agoodlittleally · 12/12/2017 10:01

Goatgirly for example puts the point across well without stirring up hysteria, fear and hatred.

BeyondAssignation · 12/12/2017 10:01

We, at present, already have a compromise.
(Diagnosis of dysphoria, 2 years "living as", leading to GRC changing legal status. A very small amount of legal exceptions - medical/care/refuge)

Compromise is not what the TRAs want.

BeyondAssignation · 12/12/2017 10:03

1DAD, I'm curious - when you were a teenager, did you used to joke about being invisible and sneaking in to the ladies changing rooms?

PersianCatLady · 12/12/2017 10:03

agoodlittleally
The OP isn't inciting hate though.

She is stating her valid concerns.

How do you feel now that lesbians might in future be called prejudiced if they don't want to have relations with women who have penises?

sleighbellend · 12/12/2017 10:03

‘Hysteria, fear and hatred’ - what, like when TRAs tell women to die in a fire and drink bleach?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 12/12/2017 10:04

But of course, you know this. You read the threads

Well he reads...but I doubt he understands

BeyondAssignation · 12/12/2017 10:04

Please could you point me to an intelligent argument for the opposing view, ally? I must have missed it.

lostplot · 12/12/2017 10:04

Ooh look, a man telling us we are wrong.

Ally instead of telling us we should be ashamed, could you tell us how you would address the very real concerns raised here. What are your solutions?

Blanchefleur · 12/12/2017 10:06

I do not believe men self identify as women just to oppress other woman, assault them in public toilets, beat them in running races and invade their safe spaces.

Really? Try checking out the Facebook group 'This Never Happens', for a start. It sounds like you don't realise that there is a difference between an actual transsexual person and a predatory misogynistic man.

I do believe in the phenomenon of being transgender.

We are well aware that body dysmorphia/gender dysphoria exists. We are very sympathetic towards genuine transsexuals, those who actually suffer from this. Did you know that some of our regular posters are transwomen themselves? They have frequently explained just how much harm the transactivist movement is doing to them. Genuine transsexuals are labelled 'truscum' by transactivists.

I do believe people people are genuinely born in the wrong body.

Why do you think this? Many of us do not like the bodies we have, but this does not mean that being born in the wrong one is actually possible.

Did you know that there is a high level of autism amongst transgender people? Backgrounds of sexual abuse, homophobia and strong religious beliefs are also common. Don't you think that mental health conditions (there is no shame in having mental health problems), family background and oppressive societal expectations are far more likely?

I believe trans women born in the wrong body should have the same rights as other women.

What rights do you think transwomen don't have?

Just because you cannot understand something it does not mean you should be fearful and it does not mean it doesn’t exist.

Why do you think we think that transwomen don't exist? As I have said, several of us on here are actually transwomen and many of us have transgender friends, children and other family members.

Why do you think we are fearful of transgender people? We have stressed time and time again that we oppose changes in laws and practices which put women and children at risk from predatory men (this does not mean that we are including transsexuals in this category), that ignore women's boundaries or women's safety, that remove measures put in place to address women's inequality or seek to silence women's voices.

Goatgirly · 12/12/2017 10:06

"It does seem an imposible task to reconsile a comprimise that is fairest to all."

No it's not impossible. Let's work towards safe spaces for trans people instead of yet again expecting women to passively roll over and make all the compromises, then calling them hysterical, hate-filled bigots when they don't do as they're told.
It's impossible to please everyone when the only solution being considered is one that chucks women under the bus.

Datun · 12/12/2017 10:12

agoodlittleally

Pointing out what is happening and the proposed amendments to the GRA is not hate. It really, really isn’t.

It’s necessary to point out that transwomen are men. It’s not done to hurt. It’s to acknowledge why sex segregation is necessary in the first place.

Just think for a minute.

There are very many informed, educated, rational women on here. Feminists, concerned women.

Feminists, by the nature of the movement, will always champion minorities. that’s what they do.

Feminists drill down into the way society works and how it disadvantages women. There is a history to it, there is a pattern to it. That’s what they do.

It’s not knee-jerk, it’s not hypothetical. It’s based on statistics, evidence, studies. It’s why you have an education, a job, a public toilet in the first place. Maternity leave, breastfeeding rights, abortion rights, rape refuges, women’s aid centres, diversity quotas.

They are not concerned about the amendments to the GRA because they are man hating bigots.

It’s because they are analysts. And very experienced ones when it comes to women.

When this issue was first raised, I listened to them because they were calm, logical and rational.

Nothing has changed. And everything they predicted, has happened.

Just listen.

therealposieparker · 12/12/2017 10:12

Oh trans women exist alright, just look at every women's group and accolade they're littered with them. Why is that?

Why are so many trans women not satisfied with just being trans but have to barge their way into our wards, awards, bursaries, sports, competitions, schools and groups?

Goatgirly · 12/12/2017 10:12

Ally I dont think the op is inciting hate though, it's highlighting things that are already creeping into society, things that lots of people are unaware of, and need to know.
Allowing anyone to identify as a woman just on their say so carries risks and implications, we need to discuss these without being called terfs and bigots.

BeyondAssignation · 12/12/2017 10:16

Saw this tweet earlier, I'd like to ask ally and dad the same question...

twitter.com/btbottbott/status/940217642085953536

"Why are the people shouting Terf not wondering why older, lefty women, who have always been on the frontline of progressive activism, suddenly angry?"

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