Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Lily Madigan - C4 news tonight

548 replies

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 06/12/2017 19:04

Just switched over to Channel 4 News and Lily Madigan is going to be on it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
Ereshkigal · 07/12/2017 16:26

If you remember, it was Cathy Newman who asked Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie the Trans Question.

Datun · 07/12/2017 16:31

I’ve always thought that attention seeking is quite a loaded term. I’m of the opinion that if someone is craving attention, something one ought to ask is why?

Occasionally it’s because they are really not being listened to.

I wondered if that was the case with this boy.

But getting a solicitor to strong arm your school is not the action of someone covering up insecurity with bravado.

He comes across as incredibly narcissistic. And given that, statistically, narcissism is a very prevalent trait amongst the trans community, it’s no surprise.

I agree that he says he is fragile, I agree that he looks fragile.

I’m not so sure his actions demonstrate fragility.

But I do anticipate that he will be dropped. And, whether he is fragile or not, he will suffer because of it.

Which ever way you look at it, he is going to be held up as a token. Whether that’s a token to represent women, trans people, or a casualty of perceived abuse, remains to be seen.

I also think that is pointless criticising him further, as martyrdom will be the next best thing to obscurity.

But the self restraint required is killing me.

Jenala · 07/12/2017 16:35

Someone mentioned earlier how when they want to represent women/use women's spaces/attack feminists, the line reeled off is Transwomen Are Women - #nodebate

But then when they want to stand out e.g. Lily as The First Trans MP suddenly the focus is all on the fact they are transgender.

I don't know how to argue this succinctly but I keep coming back to it. I feel like it's very revealing but not quite sure what of.

Ereshkigal · 07/12/2017 16:38

They are claiming to be more oppressed than women are, that's why they do this.

Ereshkigal · 07/12/2017 16:39

Poor women shut out of womanhood by meanie bigots.

Ereshkigal · 07/12/2017 16:39

Even though the worst abuse and violence comes from men.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/12/2017 16:44

That's a really interesting point.

Lily wants to be first transgender MP, not "just" a "female" MP. I guess that wouldn't be noticeable enough maybe.

The thing that struck me was just how young they were - are 19 years olds really like that now? They come across to me as much,much younger.

I actually thought Newman's questioning was quite clever, nothing that could be considered bullying , or make middle aged women houcj their bosoms in sympathy. Instead I think an awful lot of people will watch that being presented as serious news and just think WTF.

The more mainstream this goes, the better IMO. TRAs arguments do not stand up to scrutiny, and given the light of day I think the whole movement will just fail.

It's just a matter of hoping it gets out there and fails before any laws get changed.

Datun · 07/12/2017 16:48

I don't know how to argue this succinctly but I keep coming back to it. I feel like it's very revealing but not quite sure what of.

I agree. I wish there was a word for it. Moving the goalposts? It doesn’t sound comprehensive enough.

It constantly happens. Being trans gives you an extra layer of privilege. Over and above that of being a man. No woman would ever have got away with half the things transactivists have done, or said, (or worn).

Neither would most men.

It’s a Teflon coating of uber privilege.

I’m a man, I’m a woman and I’m trans. I get to claim male privilege, with an extra coating of trans privilege and get to exploit women at the same time.

‘Trans privilege’. It is absolutely a phenomenon.

They can no longer claim suicide rates. One trans teen suicide in 10 years according to the Tavistock.

They can no longer claim murder rates. In this country more trans people have murdered than have been murdered.

They can’t claim they are sexually harassed, given the number of transactivists who actively seek it and boast about it online.

Trans privilege.

Movablefeast · 07/12/2017 16:50

I just wished the C4 interview had asked Lily which issues that affected the majority of women in the UK Lily was most concerned about. For a Women's Officer Lily doesn't talk very much about Women's concerns.

Lottapianos · 07/12/2017 16:52

'I just wished the C4 interview had asked Lily which issues that affected the majority of women in the UK Lily was most concerned about'

Oh that would have been fascinating Smile

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/12/2017 16:53

For a Women's Officer Lily doesn't talk very much about Women's concerns

Of course she does. trans women are far more oppressed than cis women and therefore their concerns are a greater priority...

Nyx1 · 07/12/2017 16:57

Yes it would have been good if Cathy had asked which issues were most important to Lily - or did that happen and just got the answer "transwomen like me"?

Also I didn't like Lily's response when asked about violence. Instead of outright condemnation, Lily made a statement like "there are better ways of handling things" or some such. I expect at least a couple of sentences saying "I don't condone violence".

Agree with pp who said LM doesn't seem 19. I volunteer with a few people in the 19-25 age bracket and they could be much more erudite on TV - and they haven't stood for office and in most cases, haven't had great access to education.

What a pity the parents funded the solicitor - or did the solicitor do the work pro bono I wonder?

Datun · 07/12/2017 17:00

What a pity the parents funded the solicitor - or did the solicitor do the work pro bono I wonder?

Pro bono.

The trans community is massively well funded. There have been meetings about using what they call ‘strategic litigation’.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/12/2017 17:02

I doubt Lily's parents funded it, I think the story is she went around knocking doors until some kind solicitor took pity.

I doubt that story either. I know this is tin foil hat territory, but I think there is someone behind Lily. Watching them on C4 news would they really have the nous to find an engage someone -Lily comes across to me as someone that has been very much groomed and is now being expertly manipulated by someone.

I almost feel sorry for Lily, this is not going to end well for them.

Elendon · 07/12/2017 17:07

I think LM played the fragile young trans woman, shrinking violet, really well last night. Which is why the questioning was basic and non confrontational. There was an air of let's take things easy about it.

And yes to trans privilege Datun

PersianCatLady · 07/12/2017 17:10

Lily's actual age isn't important. Mhairi Black was 20 when she was elected as an MP. She is incredibly competent
I agree, that is why instead of using the term "age", I used the terms "maturity" and "experience".

For example, I know some 20 year olds who live alone some with a child, they work and do everything for themselves and I know a lot of 20 year olds who live at home and their parents do pretty much everything for them.

Also there are many people in the middle.

They are all the same age but their maturity and life experiences are so different.

In a way you could say that Lily Madigan and Mhari Black are similar to the people that I know.

Nyx1 · 07/12/2017 17:15

Thanks
I almost wanted someone to tell me I was losing it with the pro bono theory.....!

WhoWants2Know · 07/12/2017 17:19

So maybe instead of engaging with the magical thinking and repetitive (“trans women are women” / “no, they aren’t”) arguments, it’s time for those of us on Twitter to start hitting her with the hard questions. Questions about the issues that affect the majority of women. Abortion, the wage gap, affordable childcare, DV, rape, etc.

We ask these questions to other female politicians who represent us, but when it comes to Lily all the questions somehow come back to the trans agenda. If she wants the job, then it’s time to do it and stop swanning around looking for attention.

SteelyPip · 07/12/2017 17:20

@RedToothBrush

Thanks for linking that article. It was a good read.

Elendon · 07/12/2017 17:23

One of course would not be at all criticised for thinking that the terms terf, transphobic, anti trans are all meant to silence women. Submission is the goal.

Fekko · 07/12/2017 17:26

They don't really like me do they? It's a viscous hatred that comes across. They really do think that they are better than woman. Like woman++.

Elendon · 07/12/2017 17:27

Unfortunately WhoWants2Know those issues are considered transphobic. Word to the wise. Do not engage in a discussion regarding domestic violence.

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

SpeverendRooner · 07/12/2017 17:27

I agree. I wish there was a word for it. Moving the goalposts? It doesn’t sound comprehensive enough.

Two-faced? They're basically taking the position that transwomen are women when that's convenient and that they are a distinct group when that's convenient.

It's like how Andy Murray gets presented in the press - Scottish when he loses and British when he wins.

FattyCat · 07/12/2017 17:39

Mxyzptl

Butch and Femme still very much a thing.

Not for much longer though. There are horrendous numbers of gay women seeking transition.

Butch waving here [no emoticon for lez waiving]