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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Liliy Madigan

548 replies

dinosaursandtea · 05/12/2017 12:59

She's taking a Twitter break for her mental health because of the level of abuse she's receiving. She's a teenage girl, FFS - and even if you think she's a teenage boy, in what world does a 19 year old deserve this amount of bullying?

I hope you're all fucking happy now.

OP posts:
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theaveragewife · 06/12/2017 23:18

No, I don’t agree. Abuse isn’t ok regardless of who it’s directed at, just because a predecessor or peer has suffered abuse doesn’t mean it’s ok to accept it. Lily’s inexperience has quickly shown her inability to deal with abuse in a professional way, but that still doesn’t make the abuse ok.

cromeyellow0 · 06/12/2017 23:25

I haven't seen any abuse. If you are a man, being called "he" does not constitute abuse. Querying how Lily can represent women is also not abuse. Pointing to his own social media posting is also not abusive.

Pickleshickles · 06/12/2017 23:48

Watched from the sidelines for ages but this has tipped me over, he can't go around threatening to dox woman! I'm a long time party member and have just complained vigorously about this petty little boy who needs a serious talking to by an actual adult.

The role itself isn't actually that grand, but the party need to seriously think about the image they're projecting.

And I don't care what anyone says, I'm perfectly happy to be called a terf. Terfy as fuck me.

RedToothBrush · 07/12/2017 06:23

No abuse is not ok.

But knowing how to deal with it, sadly is part of the job.

And yes I agree, most comments relate to scrutiny and are being labelled as abuse or are about differences of opinion over what definition a woman is. In this case Lily still is legally and biologically still a man, whether Lily likes it or not. The comments are not factually incorrect despite Lily's assertion to use Google about brain nonsense.

doctorcuntybollocks · 07/12/2017 06:58

If a man is beating his wife, is she abusing him when she raises her hands to her face to prevent him from punching it? That seems the nearest equivalent to our situation.

SparklyUnicornTractors · 07/12/2017 07:33

doctor from an abusers perspective, yes. One of the hallmarks of abuse is an attitude of 'co operate nicely and stop upsetting me with your reactions while I abuse you!'

Hate and threats and nastiness can't be condoned and no one should be the target of them. However I still have not seen a single screenshot of anything from a woman that includes threats, personal abuse or obscenities. What I've seen are questions, facts and challenge to statements and actions.

This is reminding me more and more of the threads about toxic parents/PIL, often where narcissism is involved, where the parents/PIL behave horribly, say awful things, do awful things and feel fully justified to do so, but melt into wailing puddles if anything is said or done by their victim in return that questions or doesn't fit their narrative of reality or challenges their thinking, or in any way hurts their feelings. That is seen as a disproportionate and a vicious, mean and unjustified attack. There is no connection between their actions and the consequences of others reacting to them. There is no recognition of their own actions or statements that are conflicting or immoral even, because they isn't not all coherently fit a situation or a point of view, but they all serve emotions and feelings at the time and feelings matter where objective facts aren't really possible from their distorted world view where protecting their fragile sense of self is everything. There are also hugely differing standards - which Lily is demonstrating - about what they expect from other people in terms of consideration, support, understanding, approval and enabling, compared to what they feel other people are entitled to. For people in that mindset the most gentle disagreement or questioning of their actions is interpreted as a vicious attack.

If someone with these issues takes public office they can't be enabled or cocooned to avoid questioning or accountability or basic attempts to keep their actions in touch with objective reality. This is where the TRA ideology really clashes: how far is it reasonable to expect all other people to enable someone's distorted reality and expectations, and enable their behaviour, while controlling their own truth, feelings and reality to not challenge or upset them, although this respect and effort is one way only? Can you legislate for people to do it?

GuardianLions · 07/12/2017 07:38

doctor and sparkly you are right

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 07/12/2017 07:47

If Lily wants to see examples of abuse, then a read of the current thread about close calls might be enlightening. It's a long list of women discussing the times creepy men have groped them, drugged them, tried to force them into cars, followed them, and more. And none of these examples are unusual, I don't know a single woman who hasn't experienced at least 'low level' abuse from the time they children. But of course, we aren't supposed to classify these things as abuse because, as Lily's fan Paris Lees says, being treated like this is a huge compliment.

Elendon · 07/12/2017 09:37

Could you link to that thread please Saskia Many thanks.

theaveragewife · 07/12/2017 09:53

doctor and sparkly you are right

Having read through the thread again, and through many many twitter responses this morning I agree. It's hard not to question your opinions when there is someone (Lily) claiming to be struggling with abuse, it's essentially political gaslighting.

Ereshkigal · 07/12/2017 09:56

I imagine this was the Reddit thread you saw about Mumsnet MrG:

Linked by Mermaids @mimmymum their marketing coordinator.

And here's another tweet where she references Mumsnet:

twitter.com/mimmymum/status/938216987645407233?s=17

https://amp.reddit.com/r/GenderCynical/comments/7hqagp/websitepostersswhohaveeorganisedaavicious/?twitterrimpression=true

Ereshkigal · 07/12/2017 09:58

Sorry I didn't put a space in but both links work.

Lancelottie · 07/12/2017 10:00

Gosh.
They have a very mild idea of 'vicious attacks', don't they?

Terrylene · 07/12/2017 10:05

Someone doxxed her? She was called Helen and connected to mermaids last time I looked Hmm. Can't have been difficult Wink

RedToothBrush · 07/12/2017 10:06

When will the lawyers be unleashed on MN? I do wonder.

KatherinaMinola · 07/12/2017 10:08

"Vicious campaign of hate", LOL. If "I am writing to my MP about this" was hate speech.

I like the way Reddit and that Broadly article try to position MNers as conservative, right-wing white women (and yes, bless them, older mums who are probably a bit dim).

I haven't seen the alleged abuse on Twitter either - from what I can see the "campaign of bullying" is scrutiny and disagreement and the presentation of facts. For Twitter it's all fairly polite.

Terrylene · 07/12/2017 10:08

Does anyone know what became of their police investigation into their abuse?

KatherinaMinola · 07/12/2017 10:15

That mimmymum tweet about TERFs "outing themselves" is rather sinister though.

Again, interesting that the replies mention yummy mummies and surprise that the letter was printed in the Morning Star (because all MNers are Tories from the home counties).

Ereshkigal · 07/12/2017 10:31

They really have no clue.

Ereshkigal · 07/12/2017 10:33

I was amused by "TERF Towers" though Grin

Lancelottie · 07/12/2017 10:33

Interesting, isn't it, that in a discussion about someone who should be representing women and getting their voices heard, this entire website is dismissed because 'it's just a load of mums'.

Lancelottie · 07/12/2017 10:34

I'm not a violent person, but I do rather get the urge to bang heads together.

RedToothBrush · 07/12/2017 10:35

Katherina, from recognising a lot of the names posting on the subject and knowing what else they post about, I know that their political leanings are firmly more left leaning. There are some more right leaning posters, but to describe posters on this as predominantly right leaning is hilarious. I think it's a fairly broad spectrum and if anything more to the left than right.

There in lies something else though. If your far left, everyone who disagrees with you is right wing and conservative. It's just another way to force division and polarisation and a certain wider political agenda.

Ereshkigal · 07/12/2017 10:53

There in lies something else though. If your far left, everyone who disagrees with you is right wing and conservative. It's just another way to force division and polarisation and a certain wider political agenda.

I think this is it. To many of them "centrists" are evil.

KatherinaMinola · 07/12/2017 11:13

If your far left, everyone who disagrees with you is right wing and conservative. It's just another way to force division and polarisation and a certain wider political agenda.

Only if you're stupid though, or leaving your rational mind at the door. I'm far left, but I know that people who disagree with me (on anything) might be disagreeing because they're further left than I am, or further right, or because the issue at hand isn't really an issue of right or left but of something else.