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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Trans Widows escape committee

972 replies

TinselAngel · 01/12/2017 15:55

This is a second attempt to start a thread for women who have been, or are still in unhappy relationships with Trans partners.

Having got out of a marriage to a man who transitioned shortly after we split, it would be good to be able to support others in a similar situation.

I know there's a few of you out there?

OP posts:
Poppyred85 · 02/12/2017 10:42

Flowers for bird and emily
I don’t have any useful advice but just wanted to say something, to let you know you are not alone in this, we are here and ready to listen, whenever you need us.

birdbandit · 02/12/2017 12:15

Random mess, you said that perhaps the problem is their being narcs rather than their being AGP crossdressers.

I would argue that the two go hand in hand. It is a highly narcissistic thing to fancy yourself dressed as your opposite sex. This is very much an inward looking affair.

This is often my problem on these threads, crossdressing is argued as cool, and the narc stuff that goes with seen as separate and bad. You are allowed to be pissed off with a narc husband, just not one whose narcissism is literal and visible as crossdressing.

Fancying and masterbating, or revolving your sex/life in your fantasy of yourself, where others are only involvedor understood as props is narcissistic.

RandomMess · 02/12/2017 12:37

I can completely see that you are all at the hands of narcs and the fact they narc with their sexual preferences is the same as any Narc behaviour - vile!!!

I was more musing that there must be some trans/cross dressers that aren't narc? I don't know enough about it though do can't have a view. As I said those that aren't narc wouldn't be keeping a sham of a marriage going and most likely wouldn't have married at all!

I honestly wish you all the strength and courage to escape your situations sound soul destroying.

I agree about using the safer place to post.

ladyballs · 02/12/2017 12:42

Flowers to all of you.

birdbandit · 02/12/2017 12:45

I think the question is why does the individual crossdresser dress? And honestly, only getting honesty is the problem isn't it? My H would say very differently to what he does.

I think it is entirely possible for it to be sexual but not narc, more of an escape fantasy from who they are. Which can be cool. However not cool if the individual is projecting unsavoury or stereotypes onto women. It's the same as a white fellow having a sex fantasy about being a black slave, complete with chains and jazz hands. It's an arguable point as to whether that is harmless.

RandomMess · 02/12/2017 12:48

The behaviours of the men on this thread is incredibly harmful!!

Unbelievable that they tell one tale yet live something completely different- narc through and through. Sure they all have a believable sob story ready if any of you start speaking the truth.

KOKO Thanks

Nyx1 · 02/12/2017 12:51

this thread is such an eye opener for me

about 20 years ago, a gay friend of mine told me he felt very uncomfortable around cross dressers. I always thought that was a bit odd. Now, looking at this thread, I wonder if he knew about AGP all the time and how damaging it could be.

TinselAngel · 02/12/2017 12:57

It's so infuriating. My ex posted every detail of our lives online to his Greek chorus of trans supporters, and we're the ones worrying about this thread being "outing". He has quite a presence on social media now. He even had a blog published by a popular online "news" paper.

I've barely talked about my experiences online at all, yet still worry he'll find this and use it against me. He recently said he couldn't trust me to parent our daughter in her best interests, because he saw that I follow gender critical feminists on Twitter. (Although this was cant, he's not done anything about it).

What is the best way for us to support each other that is visible enough for other people in the same situation to find, but discreet enough to not be read by the partners concerned?

I wish I'd had had the support of others in the same situation. The only group I could find at the time was the "Women of the Beaumont Society" Yahoo group, which just freaked me out as it was entirely made up of people putting up with horrifying relationships.

Oh and my ex was (and is) a high earner working in IT too.

To those who feel trapped in these relationships- if you want to get out, you can. I felt I had to stay until all possibilities had been exhausted- so right up to his go ahead for transition from the GIC. In retrospect I probably should have left 5 years before I did when I found out he'd started cross dressing in secret again, despite swearing blind he wasn't.

OP posts:
birdbandit · 02/12/2017 13:14

If it were just me, I would have packed a bag and run away to Siberia or somewhere remote a while ago.

You said about your Dd, my fear is that in it, I have more control than out. I worry post divorce how he will spin it to the kids, who will come into their lives, how he might manipulate them to further his imagination of how the world works. I don't trust him not to use them.

I feel the online aggressive campaign to medically transition children, #nodebate is of benefit to men like H as it validates their narrative. It can be considered abusive and I worry about my kids.

TinselAngel · 02/12/2017 13:35

I get what you're saying @birdbandit about wanting to retain some control. I think I felt that to an extent as well. In my case though, any control I thought I had was a complete illusion.

I liken it to trying to dam a stream. You just think you've got everything blocked off, and the water finds a new way around. It's impossible to stop.

In my ex's defence, he is still a pretty good Dad, and my daughter and him have a good relationship. He saves his bitching about me for his online Greek chorus, as far as I know.

OP posts:
birdbandit · 02/12/2017 13:47

I think my D would be out if he had received the reaction he expected when he last had a fog.

At work and home he can't handle and never hears "no".

He thought all his friends and family would be treating him as the more evolved deity, which he is in his imagination, and I would be happy to skip along in this new sex adventure. But that didn't happen, so he crashed into a purge, which is where we are now.

Albadross · 02/12/2017 15:27

Gosh. It's painful reading all of your stories - this is a reality people just have no idea exists and would change a lot of their minds, but I can completely understand how you'd not want to tell anybody about it. I can't imagine how bloody hideous it must feel Flowers.

The first man I moved in with from my family home had a thing for wearing his aunt's jodhpurs and boots, being humiliated and tied up and left for hours, and also a drugs problem that made him punch through walls. I'm pretty sure that could've gone a similar way tbh but luckily I got out.

Farinthepast · 02/12/2017 17:39

Name changed for this, but I wanted to add my experience for those of you still living through this.

My experiences were 20 years ago now. I walked into the bathroom to find my (now ex)husband shaving his legs and was told it was because he wanted to become a woman.

As the whole process unfurled over 9 months before I filed for divorce, he talked about his BDSM fantasies (never shared with me in 12 years and in spite of an extremely poor sex life limited by him), about wanting to be a robot rather than a woman per se, wanting to swing as a couple with other people, he started going to transvestite/transexual groups, staying out all night, buying women's clothing, wanting to have a lesbian relationship with me, self mutilating regularly, saying he was going to commit suicide on a virtually daily basis, and eventually trashing the house which was the tipping point.

He was seen by over a dozen health professionals in this time, one of whom was a psychiatrist who diagnosed him with Skoptic syndrome and agreed to the operation to have his penis removed probably about a year after his "coming out". Although our divorce was underway at that point, I did write with my protestations but was brushed away on the basis of patient confidentiality. It wasn't really very much comfort to receive 1) a letter from my ex less than a year later saying he regretted the operation - and I had pushed him into having it(!), and 2) to find out the psychiatrist had been found guilty of misconduct subsequently.

Those were the worst 9 months of my life. For those of you going through the process, finding it unacceptable but not seeing a way to end your marriage, please reconsider for your own mental health and wellbeing. I was "lucky", we had no children, lived away from our home towns, had no joint friends, and I was relatively young - but I was skint for years as a result of the split and mentally traumatised by the whole experience. It did get better though!

20 years ago, the whole trans culture was much more hidden and I was horrified that I had married a man who I felt had rejected me as a heterosexual woman and had made my entire adult life feel like it was built on a lie. I couldn't tell anybody at first, and have just counted that I have told 15 people in all the years since then.

I see all of the trans threads on Mumsnet and it makes me remember about the influence that the people my ex came into contact with; essentially grooming him with what to say to ensure he obtained the hormone treatment and operation. With hindsight, I'm pretty sure he was an autogynephile. I've never had anything but sympathy for people who have transitioned because they felt trapped in the wrong body, but I was certain that wasn't the case for him.

Datun · 02/12/2017 17:57



I will never see the trans ideology as anything more than a sexually motivated issue. Also hi jacked by bullies and men who hate women.

Gender dysphoria was what opened the door.

I sympathise with people who have gender dysphoria. I don’t understand why we should give it extra civil rights, certainly not women’s rights.

Gender dysphoria is a dot in the distance. This country is considering legislating to allow men with a sexual fetish to access the spaces of women and girls.

It’s insane.

Farinthepast · 02/12/2017 19:29

Yes Datun, some of the things I have read about how trans rights will impact women if taken to their fullest makes me very angry. I've never really considered myself to be a particularly radical feminist, but this is an area that I can see needs to be protected.

At the same time I'm not transphobic. There are some very tormented souls, but their needs should not trounce best part of 50% of the population. Knowing the influences my ex was exposed to 20 years ago, I worry about people who are confused about their identity now that this is more mainstream and with the internet. It becomes like chinese whispers about how they should feel and what they should do.

There's a place for experimentation and freedom to explore gender/sexuality, but I don't want to be negatively impacted by allowing that expression in my personal space - and most certainly not by those people getting sexual thrills from doing it!

TiredOfThisAll · 02/12/2017 19:50

Firstly, I have not been in your situation Flowers it sounds awful for all of you.

birdbandit The question I think, from a somewhat different experience, you need to be able to answer and evidence if you separate is - what is the demonstrable harm to DC if your H were to have x amount of contact, and how would you prove it? How far are you prepared to go to prove that contact would be harmful legally? And then, is that worse than continuing in this harmful situation?

Speak to a good lawyer and get a professional opinion before you rule anything out.

birdbandit · 02/12/2017 20:15

I think in terms of the bigger picture, it is impossible to correctly assess what the correct ratio of creeps to genuine gender dysmorphic individuals is, because of all the lying.

As a result, ardently pro Trans persons minimise the experiences of folk exposed to AGP, because it suits their ideology to imagine we are a blip, a few random pervs in a bigger pool of victims.

Whereas I, am probably unfairly assuming lies and seeing sexual motivation because that is my experience bias.

Anyway, I think this phase of trans everywhere is on the wane. My observation is that folk want blameless victims to project their own sense of charity/superiority into.

The poor, refugees, disabled, the gay community etc are all good and worthy causes, until people act like the individuals they are, some good, some bad. When this becomes too visible, people tend to lose interest and look for the next "worthy cause".

This is why animal charities are so popular. Cats and dogs don't speak!

MakeMisogynyAHateCrime · 03/12/2017 08:47

What a thread.
Thanks to everyone who is sharing, I think it is so important your voices are heard.

Farinthepast · 03/12/2017 15:32

Bird and Emily Given you are living with this now, do you have counselling support to be able to talk about the issues? I'd recommend somebody who specialises in Person-centred counselling. My experience was that friends were very sympathetic but completely out of their depth, and I found myself minimising my experience to them because they were drawing away as a result.

TinselAngel · 03/12/2017 16:01

I'd second that. I had Counselling both before and after leaving. (And was on a whacking dose of anti depressants).

OP posts:
birdbandit · 03/12/2017 16:28

I have had good and bad experiences with counselling. Bad being the councillor who said "I thought you would be a bigot, but I can see you don't want to be".. very clumsy manipulation to get me to follow his path. But she was a marriage counsellor and I think her thing was to keep the marriage together. She fell hook line for his lies, and I think her rational was it wasn't bad enough to be poor for!

Did some solo for a while, with a brilliant woman, but it felt like a circular whinge fest on my part. I wasn't ready then to move on. I am terribly British and it feels indulgent to whinge!

I don't talk to my friends very much at all, it isn't fair. Also it bloody hurts it I do confide, and they then 5 mins later are treating H exactly the same as before. Honestly I would prefer to believe that they do this because they don't know what he is really like, rather than just don't care what he does to me/us, or that they don't believe me. It's a proper scunner.

I'll probably run off with the first person to say "err no, you are a dick" to the man because they believe me, rather than the usual pretend everything is normal routine.

The best therapy for all would be action.

birdbandit · 03/12/2017 16:38

To be fair I have seen this behaviour amongst social groups for other reasons. For example, woman tells friends her H is leaving, having an affair, financial/kid nasty etc.

No one says "you are being a dick" to H, but invite him and new chick for dinner. Regardless of the hurt he has caused and this action will further, for their so called wounded friend.

Also wife then sidelined if she doesn't get over it in the appropriate time.


Farinthepast · 03/12/2017 16:55

Bird You are in a vortex, so it's hardly surprising that it's a circular whingefest. If you found a counsellor who was good, get yourself back to her. It might only be for an occasional offload rather than a series of sessions but it is essential for your state of mind. It took me at least 3 years to get beyond using time with my counsellor as "this is what happened since last time" to "this is how I move forward".

Many people find themselves ostracised through divorce, and it's really sad, but you do find out who your friends really are. I don't know how much detailed information you share, but I'll give your friends the benefit of the doubt and suggest they don't know how to process the information so they revert to how they have always been with both of you (because being polite is also the terribly British way).

EmilyHowardsWife · 05/12/2017 07:44

I've just stopped my sessions with my lovely therapist. I felt that I was using it as an expensive way to whinge and moan, leaving me feeling more upset and with even more questions that needed resolving within myself. Also, I had to lie about seeing her as my husband would be livid if he knew I was talking to anyone else about this also he would think it very self-indulgent of me. I also hated the lies - said I was seeing a Dr but not that it was therapy - I'm a very open person and hate hiding and lying.
I was put on anti depressant medication but he was extremely forceful that I not take them, so if I take them I have to do it secretly.
Back in the Pink Fog this week, which I knew was coming. Said I would join him if he only wore lingerie but not good enough - full on girl mode or nothing - he will do it on his own without me - I'm not invited into this sex life at the moment.
Just using this thread to document how I feel and to document that it is happening - sometime I down play the situation - this is my record of it happening and people out there can hear me too.

norahnamechange · 05/12/2017 08:19

I know you said upthread that you were 'too old, too tired and too invested' to leave (and I also know that this isn't the relationships board). But you are being emotionally abused at every step of the way. He was 'forceful' that you shouldn't take anti depressants, you have to lie about seeing a therapist and doctor?
It is evident that he has done such a number on you that you sound so helpless. But you know, women do get themselves and their children out of the most abusive of relationships. Have you looked at Lundy Banccrost 'Why does he do that? '
There is a wealth of support available on mumsnet for women in abusive relationships. You just sound so helpless but there really is another option of freedom from control and abuse. I do hope you don't mind me saying this, it's not meant to be hurtful. Flowers

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