Tris Osbourne

[FattyCat]

Dear God. I am actually lost for words.

Also in my 50s Elendon! I seem to be getting more radical with age! What really saddens me is that the supposedly radical left has become obsessed with regressive notions of identity.

LangCleg

Do you think that at some point they thought TIMs might have solved a multitude of problems?

That people would accept them as women, and that would give them brownie points with women voters, but knowing they are men, which meant they would be easy to talk to and would understand issues in a ‘manly’ way? Plus an uptick for LGBT rights?

It’s fairly well established that men are utterly unaware of their privilege and have no real idea how women navigate life.

Could they have all been patting each other on the back with a job well done, whilst being blissfully unaware of the Pandora’s box that they had just opened?

Datun

I think there's a coming-together of different things.

Firstly, sexism never went away and men are still largely oblivious of what it means to be a woman under patriarchy.

Secondly, there is the world post-internet, which has meant two things - hyper-individualist American thought crossed the Atlantic and infected us here in the UK. Americans are wedded to individualism but we did use to have better class analysis than we have now. Also, the internet has meant that people live a great deal of their lives inside virtual identities, so material reality means less to the younger generations. They are their own avatars, as it were.

Thirdly, transactivism has been very clever, pulling together entirely unrelated things under the trans umbrella - I think we mentioned this the other day. It's hard to oppose fetishistic cross-dressers when the transactivists have cleverly moulded them into a group that also includes vulnerable youth and suffering dysphoric adults. Most people - probably including Tris Osbourne, even though he also has a mountain of misogyny in his head - see objectors as against the whole group.

Identity politics really does fracture the long term goals. But what I dislike most about it is the trawling for young people to engage in a political system that is so out of touch with the reality of everyday life. It simply doesn't work like that now.

Parliament, county councils and town councils now is like comparing Anglia tv (parliament and the associated elected sub divisions excluding the HOL)

with Netflix - how most people now live their lives.

Datun

Might explain Labour's stance. But doesn't explain the shift on campuses in US and ever more in the U.K. It's as if "being nice" for the sake of being nice is a goal. While at the same time being the very opposite of nice to people who aren't part of your clique. The german word Gutmensch comes to mind. Virtue signaling.

And there is a bandwagon effect. "Awww a transpwesoj is getting bullied? So sad, people are so mean, we stand with you". People who have no idea of the full story, have never critically thought about the issue, just see a supposed minority group in argument and immediately assume they must be bullied. And this effect is definitely social medias fault. Wouldn't have occurred even 10 years ago. And it's scary what social media can do. It won trump the election, too.

I have had a reply from my email to T.O.

"When the entire cohort of last years Jo Cox leadership programme write to support trans people you know people won't stand for bigotry of any sort".

So he has not very subtly called me a bigot. For not ignoring the crazy.

(The missing apostrophe in year's is his not mine)

MyAuntyBadger email him back and ask WHAT ABOUT TRANS MEN?

I do want to email him back, but he said 'trans people' so he'll consider himself inclusive of trans men. He also wrote that Labour is "the only force for progressive change in society". Progressive???? How????

This is just...mental.

Yes ask about the transmen, because as we all know transmen are men and men can never get pregnant. This is not true.

Ask him about primogeniture and why the Labour government hasn't raised this as an issue if they genuinely care for trans men.

But trans men can't apply to the Jo Cox programme because they are men! That's where his whole argument falls down. The only trans people who get a leg up for being trans in his world are the ones with the trouser snakes. Ask him what about THEM apples!

"When the entire cohort of last years Jo Cox leadership programme write to support trans people you know people are absolutely terrified about being branded a transphobe so instead prefer to deny materiel reality and virtue signal".

I joined Twitter a few weeks ago for the sole purpose of retweeting, liking and supporting GC women’s voices.

Me too. And I'm sure we're not the only ones.

I'm also pretty sure I'm following quite a few mumsnetters on there. Don't worry, though, I won't ask you to reveal your real names, because I'm not a massive misogynistic cunt.

is that the entire cohort?

I might send him this.

@pisacake

He included a copy of a letter sent to The Times from the cohort, 55 women had put their names to it. It included the line; "One of our cohort is a trans woman, our friend, and our sister." The letter stated that they had been disappointed with a Times article on 25th Nov which had failed to celebrate the diversity of the programme, instead focusing on sowing divisions with regards to whom it applies. The letter ends with "Because we really do have more in common than that which divides us".

I despair.

Yes I saw the letter, what I'm asking is whether the entire cohort was those 55 women (well I think a couple of men in there too? e.g. , Paris or whatever they are called) Or are there some who declined to sign?

Ok bear with me because I’m just going to brain dump so this might be muddled.

The elephant in the room here is childbearing and rearing, the reason we have women’s officers is to represent women’s voices because the way that society is shaped it means that women find it more difficult to attend political meetings etc as the child bearing and rearing falls to us. Even in this modern age this is not equal, and if you have less women voices the issues that face women will be lower down the list of priorities.
I work with pregnant women and postnatal women and I see time and time again that women are shocked to discover that their bodies are not in fact their own but were merely loaned from society until they started having babies, then suddenly it all doesn’t seem so equal.
It doesn’t matter if the women actually have babies or if their bodies can have babies it’s belonging to the class of human that does that puts them at a disadvantage. Women are less likely to be hired or promoted in case they go on maternity leave, strangers ask when they are going to have a baby, the care of older relatives fall to them.
THIS is why natal women need representation because unless you have a fanny there’s no way to understand what that means.

The letter ends with "Because we really do have more in common than that which divides us".

I don't suppose anyone has given an answer to what exactly men and women have in common on this issue? If men and women were treat equally, then there would be no need for the focus on women only to begin with. It just makes no sense to identify a need for female only lists, but then to include males on those female only lists

Pisacake - yes, it was all of them, no-one declined (unless there's a possibility that they weren't asked? It's not signed, just a typed out list).

It just makes no sense to identify a need for female only lists, but then to include males on those female only lists

That is perfect.

How can identify a need for a female only list and then support a policy which says any man can access it.

Maybe someone should send him a picture of tiffany Scott and tell him if this while "transwoman are women" thing means he would be happy for his dd or his wife to use the same bathroom?

See of he gets it then?

I think 'would you like this person to be your daughter's PE teacher?' is going to prove to be our best question...

They should have asked the women who didn't get onto the Jo Cox leadership about how they felt about two of the places being taken by transwomen. Because the ones who did get on haven't lost anything, have they?

Love the pic, Rogue.

I got the jo Cox cohort reply from Tris Osbourne.