We need to talk about the GRA - Glasgow

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

www.eventbrite.com/e/we-need-to-talk-about-the-gra-glasgow-tickets-39786635899?utm-medium

I may actually try and go to this if I am feeling brave.

Apologies to anyone who PMd me - my phone is crap with accessing PMs & I kept getting frozen out of them.

Interesting and inspiring evening - I am so glad I went.

I am very angry and sad about the young person who was shouting with the TRAs who looked like they had learning disabilities - it seemed awfully exploitative.

A bit of mansplaining went on - it was lovely how 'not all men' from Stuart got a laugh: I don't think he knew what was so funny

Brava to the plucky organiser

@plectrumelectrum, I don’t know if I met you! I was sitting beside a very lovely MNer. I got to Costa, couldn’t see anyone with a red tablet cover, so I joined up with two other women and we walked down to the venue. It was a great night. I’m full of rage and ready to revolt now!

I'm going to find out more about object & Radfem collective? Is that what they said in the announcement at the end?

No worries Agent - I'm just glad it went ahead & it's given me the incentive to get more active - maybe next meeting I'll be brace enough to say hello to more people

I spoke to someone who had a greenish jacket on & then she got up & disappeared - think it was before you got there & I thought I'd offended her! And one of the protesters sat beside me & I was clueless!

It was the weirdest set up - wanting to speak but not knowing who you could actually speak to without screwing up the whole thing!

My nerves are pretty shattered!

Have we been on the news yet?

I always wonder what randoms passing by make of the protesters, other than making confused faces and asking what a TERF is.

PlectrumElectrum
Me too. Object do some great research.
Agent i was costa but didnt see anyone. Ended up joing with some women who were outside it with an itv cameraman. They approached me thankfully otherwise i wouldnt have known where to go.

Does anyone know why the venue was changed?

Such a good talk! I'm so glad I went. Though a bit scary at the start with the protesters in the room because you just didn't know if they'd get violent or not.

Heather was amazing. And while I did also agree with most of what Stuart said, it bothered me that he said we shouldn't say we're worried about rape in toilets as "saying you're uncomfortable is enough". Eh no, it's not enough! We're saying we're uncomfortable and we're being told to shut up and budge up for the nice transwomen who just want to pee

Some wonderful people in the audience too. So good. I wish I could have got to speak to more of you.

Does anyone know why the venue was changed

I don't know. I don't know how it could possibly have been leaked, maybe some TRAs were very busy on the phones?

I wasn't aware it has been changed til they said at the end. No idea how anyone got wind of it cos it was a tightly kept secret I was clueless.

The protest at the start was just sad. Glad the security dealt with it quickly. But I did chuckle a bit at the 1st speaker nearly getting chucked out with them by mistake! With Miranda not making it & heather being late, that would have been a disaster if she'd got chucked out!

And while I did also agree with most of what Stuart said, it bothered me that he said we shouldn't say we're worried about rape in toilets as "saying you're uncomfortable is enough

I actually agreed with him a bit. We were in a bubble there, and most people in the room already agreed with us. In the real world as.soon as you use the (what sounds like) all men are rapists argument people turnoff.

We do need to develop arguments that resonate with non-terfs. And we do need to get men on side because they are listened to more than women.

Hopefully we can figure out a way to keep the momentum going.

Glasgow is my old stomping grounds so I'm just picturing a group of oddly dressed young people hanging around outside the pub attempting to hand leaflets with things like PRONOUNS ARE VIOLENCE and SOME WOMEN HAVE PENISES GET USED TO IT to bemused people passing by.

"Don't you understand that there are TERFs inside the building and that we must stop them?"

"You what, mate?"

But I did chuckle a bit at the 1st speaker nearly getting chucked out with them by mistake

I know she was angry and fed up and had a lifetime of shit, she was also way to aggressive and would scare off a lot of normals.

She was, that's what nearly got her chucked out. It was almost farcical.

Heather was brilliant, I enjoyed her most I think. Has anyone heard what the outcome of the WEP complaint has been?

Ah I wish I’d been there - in the end I had childcare issues so couldn’t have gone anyway. So glad it went well and the protesters didn’t spoil things.

Was there any advice about what we can do in Scotland or suggestions about how we can organise? I’m worried that now the Westminster bill seems to be getting kicked into the long grass the Scottish Government will be desperate to rush their own bill through in order to look more “progressive” than Westminster.

That was great! Really glad to meet some of you there. Could’ve done without the stalky shouty protestors though

Glad to hear there were so few protesters, iismum and Nineteenagain.

@ ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thank you so much for starting this thread, because otherwise I wouldn't have known about this, and would have missed out on it. And it was lovely to meet you!

I'm just home, and so glad I went - to hear the speakers, listen to what others had to say and to meet other MNers and other women who are talking about what I've been going on about for ages now. It would be great if we could meet up again, get ourselves organised and co-ordinated to speak out again this in every way we can, and to share the emotional load of finding ourselves in the surreal situation of having to persuade people that biology is reality!

Agreed Seeing, I'd not have known about it had I not seen this thread, and I'm just so glad I went. Thank you Its, genuinely chuffed to have had the chance of getting involved in this.

Here's hoping there'll be more out there to go to. I could do without the covert stuff though. I'd never cut it in espionage

And while I did also agree with most of what Stuart said, it bothered me that he said we shouldn't say we're worried about rape in toilets as "saying you're uncomfortable is enough"

This is actually a really important point. It should be enough. Rape is at the extreme end of the outcomes that could be enabled by getting rid of sex segregation in women's toilets and changing rooms, but the more predictable, widespread outcome will be women and girls 'simply' feeling uncomfortable and therefore using those spaces less. Which means in effect that we have less freedom to move and feel comfortable in public life. That's a HUGE thing, and is the stronger argument that will resonate more with the public, as Itsall noted.

It's also not easily dismissed, whereas raising the spectre of rapists is - TRAs can scoff, 'Has any one been raped in a public toilet since these laws were passed in X'? No? Or 'Only one'? (Which is their disgusting response to the Christopher Hambrook rape that took place in a women's shelter in Canada). But we simply don't know how many women and girls are now avoiding public facilities, restricting their movements etc as a result of laws getting rid of sex segregated toilets and change rooms.

I agree with Donkey. Our privacy, boundaries and dignity are completely overlooked and we are forced to defend a ridiculous position where we have to "prove" MTF trans are as violent as other men, when they are claiming right to access our most intimate spaces merely on the basis of subjective feelings. It should be enough to say "no, that violates my boundaries and invades my privacy as a woman".

Oh Wow.

It was bloody brilliant!

Plectrum - I was sitting beside you. A great pleasure to meet you.

I met so many amazing, intelligent, fucking wonderful women! V V inspired!

Ok, but bloody weirdness. There were protesters at the door but they assumed that we were residents (I had my naice coat on) and told us that there were awful bigots in the hotel. We nodded sagely and carried on. But we were waiting for other stragglers so went back out to find them but actually some of the women were peaktransing the passers-by and the staff of the hotel.

When the meeting started, the 4 transgender people started chanting whatever it is they chant. Couldn't really make it out. There was a bit of pushing and shoving and then the staff took over and got them out. Most concerning about it all was that one of the protesters was a young woman with Downs. I honestly can't even start on that, it's just so fucking bad

One transwoman with the cherry hair thing remained and di try to interrupt at various times, but was (rightly) told to wait until discussion times.

The speakers were fantastic. Loved the first speaker, who was lesbian, straight talking and funny. She weighed in well later too. I don't know the woman who talked so we about the abusive nature of transing of women, but she was compelling and it was heartbreaking. Please someone let me know who she is.

Then there was a sociology lecturer (male) whi I thought was great. Latterly seemed not to understand why women go on about safety but there you go.

Heather BL was utterly amazing. Gentle and fierce, She was like the secret weapon that noone knew was coming.

I am so inspired by so many clever women.

Thanks to all! (I know I'm a bit gushy, had a few pints )

Went to the bar afterwards. I think the protesters might still be there wondering when we will leave.

I wished I could have stayed for drinks but had to get the train home. Should have gone straight to bed but am so keyed up by it - have been ranting with DH (who's totally on board) for ages!

Would love to meet up again - maybe to talk about how to respond to the GRA consultation and what else we can do, as well as having s good rant with inspiring women over a pint ....

I had to get the train home as well, but would have loved to stay for a pint.

We should definitely get a meet up arranged!