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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Janice Turner again in The Times about lesbians

201 replies

busyboysmum · 11/11/2017 08:06

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meet-alex-bertie-the-transgender-poster-boy-z88hgh8b8

This woman is a powerhouse.

OP posts:
Natsku · 13/11/2017 07:42

With restrictions on abortion in the US and parts of the UK, women's reproductive choices are being limited. We could be moving towards a situation where young, poor or vulnerable women are forced into birth to supply babies for the hoards of infertile trans people.

I didn't think about that, that's disturbing :(

CocoaXx · 13/11/2017 07:51

Hopefully this madness will stop before then.

Knusper · 13/11/2017 08:09

I've used up my articles for this month on the Times website. But am really glad to hear that they have a gender-critical leader. That's a huge step forward!

badbadhusky · 13/11/2017 08:13

There was a thread about the Times leader,but I can’t now find it. Has it been yanked?

Datun · 13/11/2017 08:16

Igneococcus

Wow. That article in The Times. They are really going for it. Criticising Mermaids and yes, I agree, it’s a call to arms (metaphorically).

They appear to be speaking directly to HCP professionals. Many of whom, I know, are deeply uncomfortable, but are scared to say so.

pisacake and AssignedPerfectAtBirth

I’m seeing a pattern emerging here. As you say, Urban Dictionary, Google, Facebook, Twitter. All being controlled, or at least deliberately influenced by men involved in the ideology.

But they can’t reach the national newspapers.

Every time a journalist like Turner writes a critical article, men on social media go into meltdown of criticism.

But the articles are coming thick and fast now. People are really beginning to see the damage the ideology is doing.

And every time a TRA kicks off in protest, it exposes more and more of both the fragility of the argument and the violence that tries to shore it up. And influential journalists have realised that there is very definitely an agenda going on here which has nothing to do with trying to support a marginalised section of society.

Women on here have wondered for several years why mainstream media have not got hold of this. Why they haven’t run stories, why they haven’t exposed the ideology and the violence.

Because it was felt that as soon as they did, and the rest of the country were alerted, the whole thing would collapse.

I can see a race to the finish between national newspapers and sites like Twitter.

I’m glad the article mentioned the drag queen story. Sending drag queens into classes of three-year-olds to teach them how not to commit a hate crime. Drag queens with names like cherrypoppin.

I don’t know whose idea that was, but it has to be the dumbest idea in history.

And I haven’t seen mainstream media mention autogynephilia yet.

Wait till that one hits the news stands.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 13/11/2017 08:44

Agree Datun and I was actually going to start tweeting about AGP and possibly contacting some journalists with information about it.

Twitter is a bloodbath full of lefty dudes telling women they are bigots. It's been quite a lesson in finding out where women sit on the pecking order. I fluctuate to being quite actively campaigning against the TRAs and feeling hopeless at the sheer volume of wilful ignorance out there. It's exhausting

BatShite · 13/11/2017 08:46

Ha, I'm guessing all of the complaining they did made no impact. They were calling on all of twitter to complain about the last article janice did..even people who had not read it (which many of the complainers clearly had not)

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 13/11/2017 08:53

it seems to without differently on different devices empress

Thanks Igneo.

norahnamechange · 13/11/2017 09:06

Finally - a leading paper publishing this. Well done The Times and well done Janice Turner for shining a light on what is happening. Just maybe, those in power might start to grasp what is happening - especially to children.

Igneococcus · 13/11/2017 09:07

There was a thread about the Times leader,but I can’t now find it. Has it been yanked?
I didn't see a thread about it but if the article was copied and pasted into the thread then MN might have zapped it. This happened with the thread about JT's comment in Saturday's Times as well. There was a post from someone at MN saying that they had reports that this thread is in breach of copyright and that they are pulling it and 5 min later it was gone, which is why I put a link with a share token into this thread.
I think we need to be carefull with C&P because it seems it is a new way to shut down discussions. I need to find out if there is a limit to how many articles I can share, if there isn't I'm happy to make the best use of my subscription and share any relevant article.

BetsyM00 · 13/11/2017 09:09

Jess Phillips thinks WomensPlaceUK demands are reasonable. Wow!
Now just have to persuade Women's Aid and Rape Crisis to stop selling women down the river.
twitter.com/jessphillips/status/929982940561444864

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/11/2017 09:10

Ha, I'm guessing all of the complaining they did made no impact

I think it may have gone about them. Is there really any way you can criticise the facts in those articles without sounding unhinged?

If I was a national newspaper dipping my toe into this, and a mild factual article prompted a deluge of frothing complaints letters I might think that this could really be something to investigate....

Datun · 13/11/2017 09:11

I fluctuate to being quite actively campaigning against the TRAs and feeling hopeless at the sheer volume of wilful ignorance out there. It's exhausting

I’m always terribly grateful for your links to Twitter and your analysis. I’m not on it, although I do Google threads, so I can see some of what’s happening.

I have always thought that AGP would be the dealbreaker. But I don’t think everyone agreed with that.

I’m wondering if it’s partly because they hadn’t realised quite how prevalent it is. And how it manifests itself. In as much as, if you’re not looking for the signs, two men presenting as women, might appear very much the same.

It also feels quite difficult to identify someone as AGP. Not on the basis of whether you think they are, but on the basis of how prejudicial it feels to say so.

And when you have governments changing policies and laws, it’s HUGE to suggest it might partly be on the back of a fetish that they haven’t recognised.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/11/2017 09:13

I have always thought that AGP would be the dealbreaker

From my reading AGP is not really out there. If it is brought up it is shot down with cries of "discredited science" and "Zucker was sacked"...

Datun · 13/11/2017 09:18

BetsyM00

That Twitter thread. Explicitly talking about maintaining women’s spaces and rights to exclude men. Someone says yes, but as long as you include transwomen in this, then I agree.

Ffs.

C8H10N4O2 · 13/11/2017 09:18

lefty dudes telling women they are bigots

Its no surprise that lefty dudes line up with other men against women. They have never done anything else, including the recently sanitised old militant lobby controlling much of Labour's policy in this space. I remember them routinely telling women that our struggle was secondary to the real struggle of class and we should wait. They routinely abused women and had it swept under carpet. They routinely blocked equal pay for women to protect male union members.
The Tories going along with it I mostly put down to money and the power/wealth of some TRAs.

norahnamechange · 13/11/2017 09:18

Datun & AssignedPefectatBirth

AGP is a tricky one. Given how complex all the issues are I am restricting myself to repeating (ad nauseam) issues about children, the lack of safeguarding and sex segregated spaces.

But I also veer between optimism and despair - and then I read up about Lupron or breast binding and I am all fired up again.

Datun · 13/11/2017 09:23

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I have always thought that AGP would be the dealbreaker

From my reading AGP is not really out there. If it is brought up it is shot down with cries of "discredited science" and "Zucker was sacked"...

I agree. Which is why I have said that this issue has ruined what little faith I had in politicians. All of them.

Paying a temp for three hours to browse the net, will lift the lid off AGP. (and a brief read of what actually happened to Zucker).

How anyone can deny its existence, when every ‘male lesbian’ has AGP, is beyond me.

It’s not as though they hide it.

BatShite · 13/11/2017 09:26

Jess Phillips thinks WomensPlaceUK demands are reasonable. Wow!
Now just have to persuade Women's Aid and Rape Crisis to stop selling women down the river.

FFS look at one of the relies on that..

But please @jessphillips make sure that ‘women’ in all these includes trans women. Consider all aspects.

Woman means adult human female. 'Transwomen' have had enough input so far without any input from adult human females. Yet adult human females wanting to speak on these matters must include males? Fuck that.

BatShite · 13/11/2017 09:27

In copying that tweet, I seem to have actually tagged a member on here. Sorry Blush

Datun · 13/11/2017 09:28

norahnamechange

I agree that the issue of children is the one that will make people sit up.

But you can change the law and the policies with regard to children, without addressing the problem women have with AGP. I’m concerned it will get lost.

(Victoria Derbyshire is on in a minute...worth a watch apparently).

MillicentFawcett · 13/11/2017 09:29

Jess Phillips has been sold down the river by Corbyn and his acolytes. Two of the 'women' who were awarded the Jo Cox training award designed to propel women up through the ranks of the Labour Party are TIMs. The left has totally drunk the kool aid.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 13/11/2017 09:30

Thanks Datun, that very kind of you.

Nora yes Lupron and the issue of puberty blockers generally is a good subject to discuss. So many people think they are harmless.

I have a break in contracts at the moment so hoping to devote more time to this.

The TRAs have certainly motivated feminists into activism Grin

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 13/11/2017 09:31

Datun
Can you link to good site re AGP?

norahnamechange · 13/11/2017 09:32

Datun
Yup - I agree. Just so many aspects which are wrong.
Hopefully there's an enterprising journalist who is as we speak, is researching AGP!