Janice Turner again in The Times about lesbians

[busyboysmum]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meet-alex-bertie-the-transgender-poster-boy-z88hgh8b8

This woman is a powerhouse.

I have never experienced them so I couldn't tell you specifically. But feelings like being a stranger in your own skin. Kind of like when you'd get dressed up in an outfit that feels so unlike you it makes you hate every part of yourself, except when we wear those outfits we can take them off but for teams people those outfits are their bodies

And Jake, Alex's partner, was assigned female at birth but now identifies as non-binary

So their relationship is two female people. But its offensive to call that being a lesbian. Unless Alex is also attracted to male people, which would make them bi, lesbian is the correct term surely? Or gay, is lesbian is too 'womanly'

Fucking minefield.

As for the misgendering, I don't think it counts at all as misgendering as as soon as Alex decides to transition, the terminology changes.

grp I agree that body dysmorphia must be horrible to live with.

But IMVHO 15 is far too young to declare therapy pointless and start irreversible hormone therapy and chopping breasts off.

These are children and the haste is grotesque.

@Grpsxox " Personally I think that under 18's should be limited to puberty blockers, all they do is give you some time to work out who you are."

That's bullshit. They cause longterm damage. www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/
www.lupronvictimshub.com/lawsuits.html
legalherald.com/lupron/

People constantly trot out the line that Lupron is absolutely harmless. On what basis are you saying that? There's no scientific evidence at all to show that's the case - given it's being used off label. And yet people are really happy for trans-identifying young people to be carrying out research into the long term effects of the drug for free! Yay, go free guinea pigs!

Apart from all the nasty side effects, puberty kick starts a whole load of other maturity processes in the body that we don't fully understand. Preventing those - particularly in young people on the spectrum and/or with mental health issues - could be absolutely disastrous for those young people's future mental well-being. But again, the trans gravy train doesn't care about that either.

There are other conditions that can produce feelings of hatred for ones own body, of course, and we do not respond to those by removing surgically or otherwise the hated aspect, thus implicitly affirming the hatred. Yet in these instances we do, and I have never understood why.

Apparently the brain isn't fully developed until 25.

I would personally say that surely its best to hold off ANY transition until then. Especially as most people effectively 'grow out' of gender dysphoria (most of whom are actually simply gay adults)

I think there would be a lot less detransitioners that way as people can think through the decision properly

I find the use of 'harmless'(yeah right) puberty blockers to be disgusting and child abuse really. And all so if the child actually is trans, they will 'pass' better? Fuck that. Endless medical problems simply for aesthetics.

Also blockers is NOT giving someone time to work out who they are, at all. And people who say this know this too. Once on blockers, near 100% of kids go onto cross sex hormones. When left alone with no blockers, 80% would grow out of it. So how does that work? Could it be because blocking puberty blocks the brain development that would otherwise let the person really find out who they are? and come to terms with simply being gay?

Oh and I'd like someone to explain the misgendering thing to me. There was a temp at work this week and I genuinely couldn't work out if they were male or female. I suspect they're a woman taking T. They looked like a woman, moved like a woman but have very short hair, no boobs and bum-fluff on their face. Do I ask them? Surely that's a bit rude? I could ask them their name but if it's Alex then I'm none the wiser. So if I'm referring to them (and another thing that's always confused me about misgendering - if you're talking about someone in the third person, they're not usually in the room. So how do they know and how does it hurt their feelings?), do I just take a punt?

I absolutely vehemently refuse to ask someone 'what are your pronouns?' on first meeting them.

An important point to bear in mind when considering the substantial overlap between the gender confused population and the autistic population is that there is evidence that people with autism develop later, often showing substantial developmental spurts well into adulthood.
If we do not understand the impacts of these drugs on the NT brain, we u detest and them even less in relation to kids on the soectrum. The total failure of trans lobby to even acknowledge the asd issue is truly disgusting.

"Apparently the brain isn't fully developed until 25. " and that is with a normal hormone profile, with blockers it could be even later or the brain may not fully develop at all - we really don't know what Lupron does to developing children's brains.

I had Lupron as part of IVF treatment and it was horrible, it caused me serious mental health problems, they were temporary as I was only on it for a few weeks but these children are given it over much longer term.

JigglyTuff that's a really difficult situation I'm sure but using they/them is absolutely the best thing to do! They is not necessarily plural, think "someone was sitting at a bus stop and THEY were reading a book". I know asking someone for their pronouns can feel a bit weird but it's a great thing to get used to doing and I'm sure if you were to use the wrong one they would be happy to correct you!

Grpsxox

I don’t think there is anybody who doesn’t understand gender dysphoria. The disconnect between mind and body. It doesn’t mean that you are born into the wrong body. It means that there is a disorder.

I also realise, that therapy is very long-term treatment. Something that certainly in the UK, is not offered.

It’s the idea that you can change sex, when you can’t. It’s the idea that the only treatment that we have is something that renders people infertile for life and sexually compromised in terms of sensation. (See Jazz Jennings).

Puberty blockers are being used off label. There is no long-term study as to the side-effects. It’s disingenuous to suggest you can stop them, since 97% of children on them go on to cross sex hormones.

Gender dysphoria should be treated. Money should be diverted to the cause of it.

It should not be celebrated, as it is being. It should not be presented in schools in anywhere NEAR the extent it is. In fact, I don’t think it should be in schools at all. If a child has gender dysphoria, the parents will bloody well know it. In which case, they can be referred. It’s not necessary to even expose children to it in schools.

We now have drag queens going to nurseries to read fairy stories about transgender people to 3 year old children because

“They reportedly want to target two and three-year-olds in order to influence them early against hate crime.”

The original article had a tweet from a drag queen whose name is ‘cherrypoppin.’ Which is a euphemism for breaking through the hymen of a virgin.

It’s insane.

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/transgender-lessons-to-be-given-to-nursery-children-as-young-as-two-a3688836.html

I assume, you absolutely don’t agree with this. But gender dysphoria is an illness. Not a lifestyle. It doesn’t get given extra rights and it doesn’t get taught to children.

50 children a week are being referred to gender identity clinics. If you think every single one of those has gender dysphoria, you are sorely mistaken.

Children are growing up utterley confused about what it means to boy or a girl. And the trans-ideology is responsible.

So yes, I am going to call out the deception and the manipulation, whenever I see it. Because the proponents of the ideology don’t really give a fuck about these people, they just have an agenda.

15 is way too young to get a mastectomy 100% and that's why they don't do it to 15 year olds cautiontape! Alex is 22 and has very recently had a mastectomy, that is a very long time after he realised he wanted a more masculine body.

If we do not understand the impacts of these drugs on the NT brain, we u detest and them even less in relation to kids on the soectrum.

According to GIRES transition can cure autism.

Gypxox Thank you for joining in with discussion, and doing it so civilly, that's very helpful.

I'm a lesbian and while that sense of identity takes time to come to terms with and figure out as a teen, I do think had I been born twenty years later I'd have been very drawn in by the trans rhetoric as a way to make sense of what I was going through. I'm very concerned about young lesbians feeling that a lesbian identity isn't really ok or enough (I actually today heard that Ruth Hunt regards calling yourself lesbian as terfy?! I'm horrified by that! I'm terfy for existing?) and falling victim to things like the cotton ceiling, which essentially invalidates and erases homosexuality. I'm very worried by this. I'm also deeply worried and offended by the very frequently aggressive and violent terminology that gets used towards women who have questions. I've so often seen casually thrown around on twitter 'rape a terf' and 'dirt naps' and 'punch a terf'. This is frightening, alienating language.

According to GIRES transition can cure autism.

Of course it can I must recommend this to my aunt. Tell her if she just starts taking testosterone and cuts off her parts, then she will be cured. Hurray!

I cant help but wonder if Alex would have needed all these hormones and surgeries and a lifetime of medication if they had just been accepted for who they were, as a young lesbian female.

Indeed. From what was written, it seems Alex was quite happy as a female to start with. Its the actions of others that made them want to transition.

I have been with my female partner for 20 years and I was TWENTY SIX when I came out. I am definitely a lesbian. No way should children be exposed to this ideology.

Bucketsandspoons I'm happy to try and give people the other side of the conversation! I 100% agree with you that as a teenager working out who you are is hard, I adopted the label gay when I was around 14, and had the term lesbian thrust on me. I have no problems with the word lesbian but I see sexuality as something much more fluid (honestly I've slept with straight guys, cis guys, trans guys, lesbians, bi girls and even the odd straight girl) but none of those situations have made me any more or less gay. I think that that's the same sort of view most young people are taking these days and I think that the idea of fluid sexuality and labels like gay and queer are more the reason less people are identifying as lesbians than transgender people. Honestly I know queer girls who spent maybe a year identifying as trans as teenagers but because transition is such a slow process they were nowhere near physical transition by the time they changed their mind.

The whole term thing is harder. Being a trans ally is super important and it is hard sometimes to get your point across without offending someone when you aren't sure how to phrase things. Honestly you could be saying something with the best intentions but if you use the wrong wording understandably a trans person, who is more used to abuse than well meaning questions, my go on the defensive (or offensive) and then call you a terf.

Also I don't think I agree with trans people erasing homosexual history or anything like that, the stonewall riots were started by a trans lady of colour!!

Also I don't think I agree with trans people erasing homosexual history or anything like that, the stonewall riots were started by a trans lady of colour!!

Thats a lie and rewriting history.

Trans ideology says biological sex is irrelevant and that males can be lesbians. This is erasing both homosexuality and heterosexuality, if sex is 'irrelevant' and 'gender' is what counts.

If you happily sleep with men, gay, straight or trans, you’re not a lesbian.

A lesbian is someone who is attracted to other biological women.

A lesbian is someone who is attracted to other biological women.

Can I correct this to

A lesbian is a biological woman who is attracted to other biological women.

I know you know this already. But the term 'lesbian' being applied to straight males annoys the hell out of me.