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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

R4 Today programme have an item on later about children and gender dysphoria.

160 replies

Iris65 · 01/11/2017 07:00

Looking forward to hearing this.

OP posts:
Stopmakingsense · 04/11/2017 14:50

Hopefully to remain in the "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" category. I did get the impression that no one quoted in the article was that keen, despite helpful illustration!

TammyswansonTwo · 04/11/2017 15:26

Giving Lupron to a developing child is just horrific. If any of their parents had ever been on it themselves they'd never allow it. That drug destroyed my body and mind for years on end, and I still struggle a decade on. It's unimaginable.

Datun · 04/11/2017 18:48

TammyswansonTwo

Flowers

Thanks for speaking out.

Beingrippedoff · 04/11/2017 20:55

That article about the conference linked above is unbelievable. If your daughter doesn't like wearing a dress she's a boy. If your son doesn't shout and play with trucks he's a girl. Seriously how the fuck can anyone take this seriously and why are professionals fueling this by prescribing hormones to these kids.

TammyswansonTwo · 04/11/2017 21:20

datun that's exactly what they've done.

When I was on this drug for medical reasons, in my mid 20s, my libido literally turned off like a switch. I was on it for 2 years, it stayed gone for six years until one day it literally switched back on and off a few times randomly, then back on properly. Years later and pregnancy had the same effect as a result. No docyors were interested in this result of course.

I also believe it has caused a condition called central hypothyroidism which is rare and hard to diagnose and I've been battling for the last 8 years to have this taken seriously (still no joy).

Datun · 04/11/2017 21:27

TammyswansonTwo

I’m so sorry to hear that. And I know you’re not alone. There are very many stories about the side effects of Lupron.

It’s quite disgusting that this is not being investigated.

pisacake · 04/11/2017 23:33

it's transphobic to investigate complications with trans procedures/medication. And anyone discussing it is a secret troll.

pisacake · 05/11/2017 01:38

There is a story in the MoS that the NHS wants to appoint a 'transgender champion' in hundreds of doctors' surgeries.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5050725/GPs-transgender-champions-1m-proposal.html

Prof Winston has a piece within it, where he demonstrates that he does know what he is talking about, unlike the transfascists:

"Before any medical treatment, a diagnosis should be made and the underlying cause of symptoms understood.

If not, mistakes and complications occur. Patients are particularly in danger when any treatment is complex, and this is highly relevant to gender dysphoria.

This rare condition results in some people feeling extremely unhappy about their gender and wanting to change it.

It is good that our society has become increasingly sympathetic and less judgmental about such requests.

But we are embarking on complex and, mostly, irreversible treatments involving young patients.

And we have little idea of the underlying mechanisms causing dysphoria. If we are to avoid doing harm, much more research is urgently needed.

Some people who undergo gender change may become deeply unhappy later in life. I have experienced this in my own infertility clinic.

Another problem is the risk of the hormone treatment given to these young people, often when they are under the legal age of consent. Moreover, serious complications may occur following reassignment surgery.

One recent international study, among several others, reports that after reconstructive surgery to the vagina or breasts, the overall complication rate may be as high as 40 per cent and further operations are needed to put things right.

The fashioning or reconstruction of male genitalia is even more fraught.

I have been virulently criticised by some of those who have undergone this treatment successfully.

It is disturbing to be called bigoted and homophobic. Yet I was the first UK doctor to offer free IVF to lesbian women (in spite of massive protests and nasty publicity), and I tried to treat several patients for infertility long after their transgender procedure.

One tweet suggested I was quoting only international figures for surgical complications but not NHS ones.

As it happens, the greatest experience in surgical gender reassignment is not in Britain.

This is why, some years ago, I visited the famous Cleveland clinic in America, and Professor Shan Ratnam in Singapore, to learn how they did their expert surgery – which they admitted was not always successful.

Some research indicates possible reasons for gender dysphoria. At the Genesis Research Trust at Imperial College, we have funded studies of hormonal and chemical influences before birth.

Some show long-term effects of hormonal treatment on children later in life. I am also involved in the GUSTO study in Singapore, which reveals that foetuses exposed to certain hormones may have physical changes in their brains by the age of four. And they have different cognitive function – they actually think differently.

This could be relevant because certain mammals which have large litters tend to have equal numbers of males and females in the womb.

One extensively studied rodent usually gives birth to 12 babies, but occasionally, there may an unequal proportion of males and females. If, for example, there are nine males but only three females, the females commonly have altered fertility and can show male patterns of behaviour.

They are also likely to be more aggressive. And most interesting, this trait is passed to their children when they conceive.

Could this happen in humans? We do not know, but it is clear that unusual exposure to various hormones in pregnancy is not so uncommon and may risk ill-health.

We also know from IVF procedures and ultrasound scanning soon after conception that some human pregnancies start as twins, but one embryo does not develop and disappears.

So-called ‘lost twin syndrome’ could be important. If this failing embryo is of the opposite sex and, like the experimental rodent produces the ‘wrong’ hormones in early pregnancy, it may produce similar effects.

Many people are happy and grateful for gender reassignment. But there’s a problem.

We need to choose when we implement this treatment. Should we treat young children, perhaps by the age of nine before the onset of puberty, or adolescents who are increasingly unhappy about their gender?

A nine-year-old who is too young to think in an adult way is at risk. Committing them to hormone therapy which will delay puberty may have undesirable and irreversible long-term effects.

But waiting until adolescence may be a bigger problem.

Teenagers have an immature brain which may not assess risk properly. They are on a rollercoaster of constantly changing thoughts and feelings.

Until we understand the underlying reason for gender dysphoria more clearly, we must be extremely cautious."

Datun · 05/11/2017 01:46

Interesting. And it looks like they might be studying the causes gender dysphoria in a more detailed way.

What worries me is that this will then be applied to autogynephiles.

To me, the most important thing is to start making a distinction.

I’m wondering if the backlash against Winston might give him an inkling of why women have a problem with this. And why finding a cause for gender dysphoria needs to proceed with a great deal of care to exclude people who don’t have it, but pretend they do.

Iris65 · 06/11/2017 03:51

Thanks for sharing the article pisacake. Prof Winston could be the beginning of a turning of the tide of how trans is approached, especially in children.

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