R4 Today programme have an item on later about children and gender dysphoria.

[Iris65]

Looking forward to hearing this.

I suspect it’s like your mum telling you it’s not a good idea to get a tattoo of a spiders web across your face, but you do it anyway.

Then you can’t get a job.

So you have to go around telling everyone how right you are about your spiders web, despite it impacting on your life. Because what else can you do?

The best thing to do is to encourage everyone else to get a spiders web, right?

I can't tell you how happy I am that Lord Winston has spoken out about this. He's very well respected and liked by the public and doctors so this could really help stem the tide of young people being put onto damaging drugs. And the fact he's in the House of Lords means he can influence policitians too. This is a big step forward and actually makes me more comfortable airing my misgivings (as a HCP) in a professional sense. After all the GMC would have a hard time criticising a Professor who's a world expert in fertility, so if other HCPs repeat what he says then there is surely no case to answer

Datun good example and that's no doubt an element but what I find chilling is that a large number of later in life trans (who went through puberty) seem to be pushing this agenda - why are they? They can't possibly know all the medical consequences. Thank goodness that respected scientists like Prof Winston are speaking up. It can't be comfortable to do so.

To put it another way: older pervy men want to gaslight children over their sexual development.

That doesn't sound like the cutting edge of progressive thought to me, it sounds like other things that have been going on for a long time.

but what I find chilling is that a large number of later in life trans (who went through puberty) seem to be pushing this agenda - why are they?

Because it supports the narrative that they ‘always knew’.

The premise has to be that they are born this way. Therefore it’s innate. They can’t possibly say that as I hit puberty I developed a sexual fetish.

Many homosexual transsexuals did always feel effeminate. But yet again, the AGP individuals are hijacking that for their own agenda.

Sexual fetishes do not begin at 18 months, two years, four years old. But it’s necessary to push the born this way narrative, borrowed from true transsexuals, in order to legitimise their status as transgender.

Once you separate transexuals who have gender dysphoria from autogynephilic men with a fetish, it becomes clearer.

This kid and his entire family rely on the income that is generated from his condition. He can’t just opt out. And he is the poster child for everything trans. The advert. The best marketing tool they have.

This from Datun on the first page is what I always think when I see trans-identified children trotted out in public - not just poor Jazz Jennings (not to metion Jazz' sister, set up already to be Jazz' surrogate womb), but also Leo from CBBC, and that kid on the front of the National Geographic, all of them. They've had so much invested in their trans identity by their parents, so much "you are so brave!!!", what are the chances any of them could ever turn around and say, you know what, Mum and Dad, I'm not trans after all? Their world would fall apart, the "community" would abandon them or tear them apart (as they do to other desisters), and they would get shit from their parents for the rest of their lives. They are trapped, the poor little buggers.

Ineedacupoftea - I honestly think it’s about validation. The more young people they can trans, the more they can try and gaslight people that the ‘born in the wrong body’ narrative is true. I have heard men who transitioned in their 40s say that they have always been women. They are revisiting their own past and inventing their back story in which they always felt like a woman but were unable to come out because of transphobia.

The fact that there are virtually no middle aged women coming out as men while there are huge numbers of teenage girls seems to pass most people by.

Cross posted with Datun!

ArcheryAnnie

Exactly. Detransistors get absolutely vilified online. Torn to shreds. Because it undermines the entire ‘innate’ premise.

I feel, in Jazz’s case, that he doesn’t even know if he’s trans or not. It’s just him.

I’ve seen various remarks by his mother where she admits that he doesn’t remember what he said as a child and she has to ‘gently’ remind him.

If someone was truly trans or crippled by gender dysphoria, they wouldn’t need ‘reminding’. Every minute of every day their transition would feel right, confirming, authentic.

I strongly suspect that Jazz does feel absolutely distressed by what has happened to him. But hasn’t got the tools to analyse whether it’s because a big mistake has been made, or whether that’s just the natural state of a trans-girl, due to everyone else’s transphobia and the requirement that this journey is always ‘incredibly difficult’.

The manipulation and gaslighting of the ideology is watertight.

Absolutely any negativity is explained away. And it’s always either other peoples attitude, or the fact that being trans is so hard.

Any and all objection can be covered.

The fact that transitioning absolutely does not make anyone happier is always accounted for in a way that shores up the ideology.

Because it supports the narrative that they ‘always knew’.

Yep, along with all sorts of historical and and cultural appropriation to show that trans people have existed forever.

Hit post too soon,

And including the intensely irritating posthumous transing of historical figures.

What posthumous transing is that then itsallgoing?

Transing the dead - article with examples

First two paras of the article linked to above. Incredibly important points about girls needing strong female role models.

Here's another posthumous transing.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-41611994

Marsha P Johnson was gay and referred to himself as a drag queen and a transvestite.

That was something that was at one time understood - there are effeminate gay men, but the defining thing is that they are GAY MEN. Not women. A bloke who was a bit camp and a bloke in a dress were both gay blokes.

However, GLAAD issued a 'tip sheet' when a documentary about him was released.

www.glaad.org/blog/tip-sheet-journalists-covering-death-and-life-marsha-p-johnson

" The film makes extensive use of historic footage that includes archaic terminology and language that is no longer considered accurate or respectful when writing about transgender people."

"DON'T refer to them using the archaic language you hear in the historical footage. Do not describe them as drag queens, female impersonators, transvestites, transsexuals, etc."

"DO refer to the gender identity of the transgender women, not their sexual orientation. Gender identity is one's own internal, deeply held sense of being male or female (or perhaps something other than those two terms.) Sexual orientation is who one is attracted to. They are not the same thing and should not be conflated or confused. The transgender women in the film are living as women because of their gender identity – not because of their sexual orientation."

Marsha P Johnson was part of the Stonewall movement which was then about being gay. It was not about company directors dressing up as women on alternate Tuesdays or decathletes who wanked off over their daughter's underwear.

He was part of STAR 'Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries'.

He said "We want to see all gay people have a chance, equal rights, as straight people have in America. We don't want to see gay people picked up on the streets for things like loitering or having sex" "We'd like to see our gay brothers and sisters out of jail on the streets again."

"We still feel oppression by other gay brothers. Gay sisters don't think too bad of transvestites. Gay brothers do.""The only transvestites they were very friendly with were the ones that looked freaky in drag, like freak drag, with no tits" "Once in a while I get an invitation to the Daughters of Bilitis [lesbian civil rights group] and when I go there they're always warm."

"A lot of gay brothers don't like women! And transvestites remind you of women."

"A lot of the times I pick up men, and they think I'm a woman and then they try to rob me" "I told this young soldier I was a boy and he didn't believe it"

(This interview is dated 1990, 2 years before Johnson's death.)

pisacake

Fuck me! That crib sheet!!!!

I can’t even. There is no hiding it. They blatantly come right out and exhort people to lie.

DON'T speculate about medical procedures transgender people may or may not choose to undertake as part of their transition. A transgender identity is not dependent on medical procedures. Overemphasizing the medical aspects of a person's transition objectifies transgender people, and prevents the public from seeing the transgender person as a whole person.

Don’t let people know we’re really straight men with fully functioning penises.

Somehow gay identity has been erased, so you get ridiculous creatures like Hannah Mouncey who is 100kg/190cm of muscle and who boasts about hitting women as hard as he can and describes himself as a 'lesbian'. In other words he is a heterosexual man.

There's really nothing whatsoever in common between Marsha P Johnson:

i0.wp.com/www.theradicalnotion.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/stonewall-veteran-Marsha-P-Johnson-441x600.jpg

who was a man who had sex exclusively with men and whose body was found in the Hudson river

And Hannah Mouncey:

i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/11/01/11/45E6364200000578-0-image-a-124_1509537368343.jpg

who wants the right to beat up women in AFL and has sex with women.

Why does GLAAD want to erase Johnson's sexual orientation? Johnson was a gay campaigner for gay people. How can you discuss him without focusing on his sexual orientation?

Why does GLAAD want to erase Johnson's sexual orientation? Johnson was a gay campaigner for gay people. How can you discuss him without focusing on his sexual orientation?

Because transactivists have taken over everything. It’s necessary to eliminate heterosexuality so that men can be lesbians.

If there’s one thing that this has taught me it’s that cross dressing men are two a penny. They outnumber gays and transsexuals.

And many of them are powerful and successful. And rich.

Why does GLAAD want to erase Johnson's sexual orientation?

Stonewall. It's to turn Stonewall into a trans battle and to make what flowed from it into trans achievements. This means Stonewall the organisation has to have trans at its heart. Which makes the attachment of T to LGB more secure.

• homosexuality. Although it eliminates heterosexuality as well.

Actually it's not just GLAAD that wants to erase Marsha Johnson's sexual identity.

From Tumblr:

"Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P Johnson were bisexual. Ive seen a number of trans lesbians claim they were lesbians, and thats not true, they were bisexual. I live with one of Sylvia's former lovers, who was a part of STAR and lived at transie house. Could you please let folks know about this bi erasure?"

Johnson himself referred to his 'husband'.

Also Sylvia Rivera is a 'lesbian' despite his (Rivera's) own statement

“People now want to call me a lesbian because I’m with Julia [his mtf partner], and I say, “No. I’m just me. I’m not a lesbian.” I’m tired of being labeled. I don’t even like the label transgender. "’

So essentially what you have is a whole bunch of autogynephiliac heterosexual men determined to entirely erase effeminate gay sexuality. If two tranvestites who described themselves as 'drag queens' had sex with each other that makes them 'translesbians', and therefore exactly the same as a man who has spent 30 years married to a woman but gets his kicks wanking in women's clothes who is also a 'translesbian'.

Bollocks, total bollocks.

I mean for fuck's sake, this is not complicated really is it.

If you stick your penis in a man's anus, that is a homosexual male relationship.

If you do it while wearing a dress, that is still a homosexual male relationship, not heterosexual.

If both people doing it wearing a dress that is still a homosexual male relationship, not lesbian.

I mean it's all magical gay trans icons for everyone.

Marsha P Johnson is now defined as a 'transwoman'.
So if 'she' had a biologically male 'husband' and also had sex with other 'transwomen' then 'she' was bi.
But if we say that akshully 'her' 'husband' was 'transwoman' just 'outdated historical language' then that means 'she' was a 'lesbian'

I mean Johnson could have literally sucked 1000 cocks and had no interest whatsoever in vaginas, but you can still magically turn him into a lesbian or bi.

Hence sexual orientation is made completely obsolete, because who cares about genitals amirite?

It's the crazy world of Tumblr.

Johnson described himself as a gay transvestite. But if he we determine he only had sex with men, then in fact he's not a gay at all, since GLAAD says he is not a transvestite but a 'transgender woman'. Which would make him a heterosexual woman.

And as a heterosexual woman, spending all that time campaigning for gay liberation looks a bit odd doesn't it. Must have been terribly confused. Why wasn't 'she' campaigning for women's rights instead.

Why wasn't 'she' campaigning for women's rights instead.

This is why I sooo very badly want people talking about it.

It implodes in a puff of smoke.

They know it, we know it.

#nodebate