Number of trans people who are murderers is greater than the number of trans people who are murder victims in UK **Title amended by MNHQ**

[WombOfOnesOwn]

This year, the number of murderers who are transgender is higher in the UK than the number of murder victims.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4156440/Transgender-woman-boyfriend-murdered-flatmate.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4997224/Father-two-stabbed-death-transgender-woman.html

And then there's attempted murders and current murderers declaring themselves trans while behind bars:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jailed-killer-who-chopped-testicles-9882176

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-murderer-moved-womens-prison-9770465

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-woman-accused-trying-murder-9569383

www.thesun.co.uk/news/2193637/transgender-female-running-champ-to-be-detained-in-hospital-after-trying-to-murder-top-uk-athletics-official/

Does the fact that MTFs are victimizers in these obscenely violent criminal acts more frequently than they are victims change how lawmakers will see their claims of eternal victimhood? I doubt it. How many male murderers will have to be given elective surgery at taxpayer expense and housed with women (far less likely to be in prison for violent crime) before someone takes a long, hard look at the reality of the situation?

But I will leave this board as it is toxic

Don't let the door hit you on the bum. Although, having said that, the usual pattern is a very hollow threat to leave ...

We are talking about transwomen murderers because transmen haven’t murdered anyone

What we are talking about is male violence. Being trans had no bearing on this, apart from the fact that we are now being expected to welcome males into our spaces if they say they are trans. Hence this discussion.

This type of male violence is relevant now for obvious reasons. Violence against women is no new thing. We can read it about it in the paper every day. Like most women, I change my behaviour to minimise the risk of being at the receiving end of it (hasnt worked btw). The proposed changes to the GRA mean that I will have to come up with new strategies to minimise that risk as I no longer have the protection of women's spaces. That is why it was being talked about a year gap and why it is still relevant now.

Again, I'm sorry your daughter is upset but women receiving flak for discussing the violence against them is not novel.

How have trans activists convinced so many people and authorities that their risks of murder and suicide are higher than anyone else's, when there is no evidence at all that it is true, and plenty of evidence it isn't? All they actually have is dubious info based on 'self reports' via anonymous online surveys.

If anyone even asks for real information about this, they get accused of transphobia.

It is all a big lie.

So, here's my take on the idea that women shouldn't be allowed to discuss this because it might upset someone's trans child. This is not at all good parenting, and it's not the fault of the individual parent because it's something all trans orgs seem to encourage.

A trans child is a child who's gender non-conforming. That's something their peers may be unkind to them about. Which is shit, but not unique to those particular children - kids are horrible to each other about all kinds of things. If the child were being bullied for, say, having acne, or being fat, we wouldn't be encouraging parents to tell the child that they have perfectly clear skin or that they're actually very slim, or attempting to control the ability of anyone to comment on the acne or the chubbiness in even the most benign way (because that's impossible). Instead we'd be encouraging parents to tell the child that they're lovable anyway, and that beauty isn't the only thing that matters, and to help the child to develop enough emotional resiliency that when some people inevitably do give them a hard time it doesn't destroy them. With trans kids what parents are being encouraged to do is tell the child that rather than being a GNC child of the sex they are they're actually a totally gender conforming child of the opposite sex (but calling it gender, because why not confuse the child even more) and that anyone who perceives them as, say, a boy with an interest in things society deems feminine is both incorrect and a horrible person who's out to hurt them. What this does is create a situation where even comments that aren't intended unkindly are perceived as deliberate cruelty and as a threat to the child's sense of self. Instead of learning resiliency, the child learns to collapse in on themselves and avoid any space in which everyone isn't going along with the fiction that they're not the sex they actually are.

The problem with that (well, one of the problems) is that there's always going to be some bugger who's going to point out that the Emperor is naked no matter how much pressure there is to praise his fine garments, and it's impossible to prevent that from happening. So if you send your children out into the world believing that it can be prevented then you're setting them up to crumble every time it does.

Why do that to a child? It may seem kind in the short term, but it's not.

m1randa1

Don't be silly. (Odd choice of name by the way).

Women would have zero interest in how many transwomen were murderers, if they weren't continually told that transwomen are overwhelmingly the victim, rather than the perpetrator. And that they do not conform to male pattern violence. (It never ceases to amaze me how some people are under the impression that women are doing this for fun.)

Women, especially feminists, are extremely well-informed about male violence. The statistics, and the breakdown of categories.

It's nothing new, stop trying to pretend it is.

In order to even find this thread, you would have to be googling for it. If your child is doing that, I suggest you try a different approach, rather than condemn what they are finding. Because they are always going to find it.

Once again, facts aren't transphobic, nor bigoted. And if you find them so, you need to adjust your thinking. You also need to desist from telling women that they must stop protecting themselves using evidence.

Call men out on their violence, not the women who are the victims of it.

Morning, everyone. Just letting you know that this is a zombie thread. It was originally started more than a year ago. It's absolutely fine to pick up the discussion again but we just thought we'd point it out for those who were unaware and might be expecting to see the OP back or something.

I know its a zombie thread but im really appreciating the irony of it being reanimated by someone telling people off for writing the thread!

Me too. The fact it's a zombie thread is significant. Because the person complaining about it would have had to have actively gone looking. Rather than just coming across it.

What's funny is that in the time since it was first started the "you're all evil witches because" arguments haven't evolved at all.

Oh gosh...it looks like im replying to hebe

I just didnt refresh

It's very confusing to me that talking about trans women being murdered is so prevalent and it gets shoehorned into every discussion of trans rights, even though trans women are at an unusually low risk of being murdered and even the cases where it's happened were not motivated by "transphobia."

But talking about trans women committing murder is demonising and witch hunting and so hurtful to people who are having a hard time and makes trans women get abused on the street and ... well, this is usually where the suicide threats get wheeled out, but they stormed off instead.

It makes the whole movement seem less like a human rights campaign and more like a mission to claim victimhood at all costs and in defiance of inconvenient facts and logic. Like a mass-scale personality disorder.

Just in case you are still reading m1randa1 it is not this board that is toxic it is the ideology that underpins the TRA movement that is extremely toxic and hideously allergic to any sunlight being shone onto their incorrect assertions.

It is NOT a witch hunt (good use of that phrase by the way as that is how TRAs refer to anyone who dare so much as question their insidious agenda) it is a discussion about proper, reliable backed up FACTS that give the lie to the incorrect, made-up assertions of TRAs.

Why wouldn't/shouldn't anyone check the narrative that is being sold as an absolute truth?

Well if the only hateful thing you could find to bump was this from over a year ago, I would say the transactivist narrative that transphobia is so rampant here is even more clearly false than it already was.

Why go specifically looking for something, only to complain when you find it that your trans child finds it upsetting? Its just bizarre.

And yeah, as pointed out, only reason people are bothered about this (along with it being more examples of MALE VIOLENCE) is because of transactivist lies that trans people are really likely to be murdered in this country and such. Kind of like the reason trans child suicide is discussed is because transactivists always bring it up. And make out like its common. When its not.

Emotionally manipulative bullshit. Yet we are the nasty ones. You have to laugh really

The whole reason I created this thread in the first place, over a year ago, was because people like @m1randa1 and other parents of supposedly transgender children are always saying that MTF trans people are in significant danger from the rest of the population.

They claim that MTFs are murdered with unusual frequency suggesting a pattern of deliberate hate crimes, and that this danger should weigh on the minds of those trying to make a decision about which facilities and accommodations transgender people receive.

The truth is, in the UK, it's OBVIOUS from a reading of the statistics that transgender people create more of a danger to others than others create for them.

Imagine if there were a broad campaign from men's rights' advocates to claim that men in relationships with women were particularly at risk from domestic violence, that we need to open up a huge array of men's shelters and make sure we consider men first in any anti-DV legislation.

And then, when someone mentioned the reality that far more men kill women in DV incidents than the other way around, imagine getting people signal-boosting zombie threads just to say "I have a son and this isn't fair, how dare you go after people like my son?"

That'd be pretty fucked up.

So's this.

Thanks for bumping this thread!

It fits quite nicely with amnesty's recent ridiculous statement:

"Transwomen are suffering violence and abuse as women and because they are trans. Over a quarter of trans people experience domestic violence and two women a week are killed by a partner or ex-partner in England and Wales"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3383981-Amnesty-has-jumped-the-shark

www.bakadesuyo.com/2010/11/which-are-more-violent-mens-prisons-or-womens/

Not clicking on random links. Can you summarise please?

Welcome to Mumsnet, Feminist4.

What about this story, which suggests that the statistics being posted here are inaccurate
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-42221629

Well we all know how trans centric the BBC has become so I’m hardly going to respect any of their statistics.

So you only like stories that corroborate your views. Surely the point is to debate the issue and look at both sides of the argument.

Look, it's not our fault that Stonewall extended its definition of transgender so wide that it now takes in all the crossdressing weirdos - you know, the ones who used to just steal knickers off washing lines, not call themselves women and get taken seriously - and it's fucked up the offending statistics so badly the "trans community" has a PR problem.

Take it up with Stonewall. They drew in the numpties, not us.