Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Number of trans people who are murderers is greater than the number of trans people who are murder victims in UK **Title amended by MNHQ**

737 replies

WombOfOnesOwn · 20/10/2017 01:59

This year, the number of murderers who are transgender is higher in the UK than the number of murder victims.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4156440/Transgender-woman-boyfriend-murdered-flatmate.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4997224/Father-two-stabbed-death-transgender-woman.html

And then there's attempted murders and current murderers declaring themselves trans while behind bars:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jailed-killer-who-chopped-testicles-9882176

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-murderer-moved-womens-prison-9770465

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-woman-accused-trying-murder-9569383

www.thesun.co.uk/news/2193637/transgender-female-running-champ-to-be-detained-in-hospital-after-trying-to-murder-top-uk-athletics-official/

Does the fact that MTFs are victimizers in these obscenely violent criminal acts more frequently than they are victims change how lawmakers will see their claims of eternal victimhood? I doubt it. How many male murderers will have to be given elective surgery at taxpayer expense and housed with women (far less likely to be in prison for violent crime) before someone takes a long, hard look at the reality of the situation?

OP posts:
BetsyM00 · 21/10/2017 18:10

It was the case of Alice smith, reported here:
www.eadt.co.uk/news/judge-criticises-lack-of-specific-treatment-for-women-who-download-child-porn-after-ardleigh-woman-20-is-found-with-1-200-indecent-images-1-4733506

"Judge Rupert Overbury said although it was uncommon for women to commit this kind of crime he found it “appalling” there were not any specific internet sex offenders’ treatment programmes for women."

Except it was a man who committed the crime.

Justanothernap · 22/10/2017 00:04

Reading that article that sentence sounds reasonable.

Programmes are generally the best option but with the right practitioner can be done successfully on a one to one. And often are for various reasons, mental health, employment commitments etc. According to the article it seemed the reason this person was not viewed suitable was because they identified as a woman. And there are no sex offender group programmes for woman. As they'd be sat doing them by themselves. Plus we don't know if the male model of offending in this manner applies to women. Not enough to study I'm guessing.

A lot of us here might think they should do the programme designed for men as they are a man. Personally I feel a man presenting as a woman either due to gender dysphoria or for less genuine reasons would not be suitable. Too disruptive/complex for other members who need their own rehabilitation to prevent creating further victims.

The issue for me is if self Id comes in will it become realised this is a way to dodge programmes? Who knows? Self Id is a Pandora's box in this sense, in terms of women's safe spaces, women's sport & in terms of crime. Yet women aren't allowed to talk about it. Apparently.

Ereshkigal · 22/10/2017 00:45

Plus we don't know if the male model of offending in this manner applies to women.

He's not a woman. I don't see why it wouldn't be exactly the same.

OlennasWimple · 22/10/2017 01:35

It won’t be that they are at risk of death, it will be that they are at risk of bullying, teasing, etc.

P Lees is one step ahead here: now a self-described anti-bullying campaigner, not a trans campaigner Wink

brasty · 22/10/2017 23:24

The amount of murders of Trans people in the UK is very low, in spite of what many transactivists say. Those who are murdered are nearly always prostituted or killed by a man they are already in a relationship with. They are not murdered because they are Trans, they are murdered because anyone prostituted is at a very high risk of murder from pimps and punters, and because men are more likely to murder their partners than women.

Rumandraisin1 · 25/10/2017 00:19

fairplayforwomen.com/trans-murder-rates

WoooooOfOnesGroan · 25/10/2017 07:47

RumandRaisin, brilliant analysis -- kudos to the writer.

qumquat · 25/10/2017 07:55

This shared by Lily Maynard on Twitter today
www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/woman-sentenced-images-child-sex-256657.amp
How do people cope with the anger and feeling of impotence in situations like this? I'm struggling this morning.

Lancelottie · 25/10/2017 09:44

What is the current law on papers making statements such as 'who was born a man', does anyone know? Are they only allowed to acknowledge that in the period before a GRC is granted?

qumquat · 25/10/2017 10:09

That's an interesting question, I have no idea of the exact rules. There's another article Lily links to about the above case which doesn't mention it at all so is presented entirely as a female crime.
www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/woman-accused-child-sex-abuse-79552.amp

Datun · 25/10/2017 10:17

We had a journalist on here a while ago who said you’re not allowed to mention that they are trans, unless it’s pertinent to the case.

But I don’t know how that really plays out. Surely, it’s not about them being trans specifically, it’s about them being male. Pretending someone is the opposite sex and committing a crime that is atypical of that sex surely must be pertinent.

m1randa1 · 09/10/2018 08:54

I find it extraordinary that so many people on this board are trying to find out about the number of transgender murderers. The desire to demonise small group of people who are going through a very tough time and get a lot of abuse in the streets is appalling. You mention individual cases and use them to tarnish a whole community. Every transgender woman is an individual and should not be witch hunted like this.

KatVonGulag · 09/10/2018 08:59

I find extraordinary that you'd go scrolling through mumsnets looking to be offended by the literal violence of words.

Thanks for bumping though hun xx

SturdyEarmuffs · 09/10/2018 08:59

Why have you resurrected a zombie thread? Not able to find anything recent to fit your victim narrative?

LemonJello · 09/10/2018 09:01

Start a campaign to stop street harassment against trans people and I’ll support it.

In the meantime, the only activism I see regarding trans people is concerned with removing rights for women, such as the right to single sex provision.

Stop with that shit and we won’t need to scrutinise the kinds of people trying to get into our spaces Smile

arranfan · 09/10/2018 09:06

Transcrime UK figures uses the Trans Murder Monitoring figures but modifies them (as below):

The list below differs slightly from the TMM report in that two cases in the UK have been excluded (as they were subsequently revealed not to be homicides), and one homicide that TMM does not (yet) include has been added.

It also lists: UK homicides perpetrated by transgender individuals 2008-2017

transcrimeuk.com/2017/11/16/trans-homicides-in-the-uk-a-closer-look-at-the-numbers/

YetAnotherSpartacus · 09/10/2018 09:10

ZOMBIE THREAD!!!!!!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 09/10/2018 09:17

Well, that was a bit of an own goal by the person who posted in outrage that we would dare to mention the facts about transgender violence, wasn't it?

The bottom line is, nobody on here thinks all transgender people are violent, but I take strong exception to the idea that we are not allowed to talk about those who are. Not least when we are being expected to dismantle existing safeguards for their benefit.

m1randa1 · 09/10/2018 09:24

Own goal. I have no agenda. I don't know about zombie threads, but I have a transgender daughter who finds this type of discussion very upsetting. She takes it very personally. She feels part of a witch hunt and that isn't nice.

LemonJello · 09/10/2018 09:27

Would your son think a discussion about male violence was also a witch hunt against him?

doctorbarbie · 09/10/2018 09:31

Bumping a year old thread back to the page of the page probably wasnt a good idea then.

But now we're here....

I find it offensive that you would come into a thread discussing people who have been killed to talk about how it's not fair to mention the people that murdered them. Would it be better to pretend these things never happened? I'm sorry your daughter finds it offensive. I find it offensive that discussions where women are talking about things which affect us are shut down repeatedly to appease the feelings of others'.

Ereshkigal · 09/10/2018 09:32

What doctorbarbie said.

m1randa1 · 09/10/2018 09:34

But why are you targeting only transgender women who murder? How can you possibly argue that what I have said is offensive. You are creating a hostile climate for a small minority group. But I will leave this board as it is toxic. I see my daughter's point.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 09/10/2018 09:35

Are you bringing your child up to be so entitled as to think that an entire website of people who they don't even know should stop talking about crime statistics because they find it a bit upsetting?
Seriously, that's ridiculous. And won't do your child any good going forward.
Teach them to take responsibility for their own emotions and that the world does not revolve around them.

terryleather · 09/10/2018 09:37

Im afraid you do appear to have an agenda, coming onto a feminist board which centres discussion of women and girls and their issues to scream Why can't you just be nicer!!!!

With respect, this isn't about individuals this is about a nuclear attack on the rights of women and girls and about male VAWG.