Number of trans people who are murderers is greater than the number of trans people who are murder victims in UK **Title amended by MNHQ**

[WombOfOnesOwn]

This year, the number of murderers who are transgender is higher in the UK than the number of murder victims.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4156440/Transgender-woman-boyfriend-murdered-flatmate.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4997224/Father-two-stabbed-death-transgender-woman.html

And then there's attempted murders and current murderers declaring themselves trans while behind bars:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jailed-killer-who-chopped-testicles-9882176

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-murderer-moved-womens-prison-9770465

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-woman-accused-trying-murder-9569383

www.thesun.co.uk/news/2193637/transgender-female-running-champ-to-be-detained-in-hospital-after-trying-to-murder-top-uk-athletics-official/

Does the fact that MTFs are victimizers in these obscenely violent criminal acts more frequently than they are victims change how lawmakers will see their claims of eternal victimhood? I doubt it. How many male murderers will have to be given elective surgery at taxpayer expense and housed with women (far less likely to be in prison for violent crime) before someone takes a long, hard look at the reality of the situation?

Clownfish can change sex. Humans can’t. Nor can they become fish.

You can, of course, become a clown - but kids won’t want you in their bathrooms dressed like that either.

Coulrophobic little bastards.

More mockery and avoiding the question

There is no question. Intersex people are either male or female. If we make an exception for one or two intersex people, so bloody what?

You don't then change laws so that men can say they're women.

Seriously, you sound like you're very, very young.

People aren't taking you seriously 4 not because we can't answer your questions but because you're talking piffle.

Regarding your question about intersex individuals you clearly misunderstand the concept.

To quote Bowlofbabelfish, a senior scientist and FWR regular:

Intersex is a crap word, let’s be honest. It implies a sort of middle ground when that is not actually true. People with DSD, (disorders of sexual development) are not both sexes at once. They have a variety of developmental issues that do things like make them sterile in some cases, or missing a vagina for example, or have abnormalities of metabolism or reproductive development.

What’s critical to understand is that all those people are male or female. they are not some kind of unknowable middle ground. The vast majority are classable at birth. A few need genetic testing to make sure - they are not a third sex. They are not proof there’s a spectrum of sex. They are just them.

So no, there is NOT male, female and intersex. There is male and female and all intersex people can be categorised into one of those two.

There aren't that many transgender women. Make the exception for them too.

There are some people who have both male and female genitalia. So that is my question.

Feminist4 claims to have an adult child so F4 has to be in their thirties at least.

I'm 55, actually.

Oh ffs, no one is that stupid they think people with intersex conditions are all born with both sets of genitals.

Hey, 4, as you're still here, any chance of you clarifying your statement from yesterday, please? The question was "what do you want to get out of this thread" and your response was "to get you locked up". Is that correct? What did you mean by that?

There aren't that many transgender women. Make the exception for them too.

I'm afraid people like you have made that impossible. Claiming that men are literally woman and we have to take their word for it has irrevocably ruined things for men with gender dysphoroa.

Oh ffs, no one is that stupid they think people with intersex conditions are all born with both sets of genitals.

At least one poster on this thread is.

no one is that stupid they think people with intersex conditions are all born with both sets of genitals.

You'd think, but to be honest, not much in this surprises me any more. There is some epic naivety and out-and-out dimness out there, plus the fact that your average anti woman activist is wont to lie like a cheap rug if it suits their agenda.

There are some people who have both male and female genitalia.

Seaslugs do. No human has both male and female functioning genitalia except for a single case of a chimera who carried genetic material absorbed from her dead twin brother.

One person, two genomes. That makes her a true hermaphrodite in the sense conjoined twins are a person with two heads.

Make the exception?

Ah, the argument from "just the tip".

How is allowing my daughter into a women's safe space bad for her? Please elaborate. Please explain the problem in letting her in for women?

Posters have tirelessly explained why letting male bodied people who think they are female into female only spaces is bad for females.
You are not listening, nor do you care one iota for the women who will be affected and harmed by this you are happy to sacrifice women on the altar of this ideology to suit yourself and your transgender daughter and that is the antithesis of being a feminist.

I think I am the only tolerant person here. I'm tired of the 'biology argument'. What about fish that have changed sex as a result of hormones in the water? Biology is determined by hormones.

You are not tolerant, you only want what suits you and damn everyone else. You may be tired of the biology argument - too bad, female biology is the reason for female oppression, female biology has been weaponised against females for millenia, females require safe spaces from males because of their female biology. Chromosomes decide sex, no matter how many hormones a male takes he will not change his biological sex and become female. Humans cannot change sex.

You dismiss all my arguments out of hand without providing any effective counter argument apart from 'Biology' and genitalia. Who are you to decide? You have conveniently attached it to women's survival in a hostile aggressive male world

You have been provided with pages of counter argument, statistics, proper researched and verified data and you dismiss it because it is not what you want to hear. Females have the right to decide who comes into their spaces, females have the right to say no, no is no we should not need to justify it. You cannot decide to the strip the safeguarding, comfort, privacy and dignity that other females require from them it is not your decision.

If you want to change the status quo it is up to you to provide the evidence that allowing any male into a female only space because said male feels like a woman will cause NO harm, or negative impact on females - you cannot do this you can only say that your transgender daughter isn't a threat you cannot prove it and you cannot prove that A.N. Other TW is not a threat. Even setting aside the threat element you are unilaterally deciding that other females feelings around comfort, privacy and dignity are worth less than those of your transgender daughter, that is intolerance in a nutshell.

The question was "what do you want to get out of this thread" and your response was "to get you locked up". Is that correct? What did you mean by that?

Yes please. I would like an answer to this too.

And make an exception? Nope.

Your child is not welcome in female spaces. The vast majority of women do not want them there. You need to find a way to have that conversation with your child or you are setting them up very poorly for the future.

Lemon, your bitter vitriol is untrue. Most women are accepting of transgender women. A small but vocal minority are not. The fact that you will not even accept a fully transitioned transgender woman destroys all your arguments about Self ID. You are just full of hate and discrimination.

Have you not seen the polling? You do not have the numbers on your side.

I have no vitriol. Just honesty. I do not consent to sharing facilities with your child. You are trying to force women to do this. Not happening.

Polling here on Mumsnet? Where are these polls?

And you would be best to have this conversation with your child. Their feelings are not more important than women’s and if you lead them to believe they are you are setting them up for a fall.

Well, the transgender community need to start some suffragette tactics then. If men, small-minded conservative people and misguided radical feminists want to thwart the freedoms of transgender people, they need to fight for them.

Try the pink news one about self id.

We’ve already had violence and bomb threats, what else did you have in mind?