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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Gender reassignment surgery... Would you then be happy with them in female spaces?

215 replies

TurquoiseChevrotain · 21/09/2017 01:13

I don't have an issue with transgender individuals, etc.

However, I know there are feminism issues. Jus curious if a biological male has his penis removed, do you still have an issue?

OP posts:
DistractedByAFatDog · 21/09/2017 16:50

"If you still have a penis and testicles you're still male"

If you've ever had a penis and testicles you're still male 🙄

Datun · 21/09/2017 16:51

Crowdo

I'm sure you're trying to be compassionate and inclusive. No one hates trans-people and everyone would love them to be at peace.

But they clash with the rights of other people. Homosexuality, for instance. The ideology maintains that it should be unlearned. That lesbians should sleep with someone on the basis that they identify as a woman, despite the fact they have a penis.

And lesbians are transphobic for saying no.

It's really, really regressive.

Crowdo · 21/09/2017 16:51

DistractedByAFatDog proving my point! Outrageous comment.

cudeatahorse · 21/09/2017 16:52

I feel that if a trans woman is post op and has had all the associated treatment (therapy and hormones) then they should be treated as a woman.

I agree.
but only if they should have the full op.

All this business of 'keeping one foot' in male territory (which is effectively what you are doing when you decide to keep the penis and testes) means you're never going to be fully accepted as a woman.

I'm sorry, but a man in a frock that still has all his bits is not a woman in my eyes.

Terrylene · 21/09/2017 16:52

So this MN thread is going to be taken into account when making parliamentary decisions?

Of course not - but so far bills have got through preliminiary stages without taking any account of any women who would be affected by changing the law.

Normally, affected parties would be invited to comment on the proposed changes. This way, laws can be drawn up so that there are no unintended consequences and everyone is happy. But so far this has NOT happened - only the pressure groups who want the change to take place have been taken account of.

No one knows it is happening. Any questioning is shut down. Women are not a single group - there are only small groups that represent different women's interests and they cannot possibly know what the problems might be if no one ever talks about it, or worse still ends up in court for 'hate crime' for asking about what is going on. This is one of the few places where you can work through various views on the subject and work out what is important.

It might involve saying a few things that are later decided on as unimportant, and it may not look pretty, but it gives people a chance to work out what to ask for. They can then join groups or talk to their MP about it in the proper civil and democratic way.

If we are to have a good law, everyone needs to know. Otherwise it will not work.

BigDeskBob · 21/09/2017 16:55

I don't think you are reading the responses on here, crowdo. Nobody is wishing trans people any harm or calling them freaks. That's something you have made up.

We are questioning mtt use of woman only facilities. Especially when it comes to self identification. We are saying that the need and wants of women to have sex segregated facilities overrides the needs and wants of transgender males to use those same facilities. For the simple reason that once adult human males are guaranteed rights to those facilities, they stop being sex segregated. Women will be denied the safety and dignity of sex segregated facilities.

Transgender males may have real fears and feel real discomfort in using male facilities, but its not the role of women to sort it out. Its not the role of women to keep men safe or validate their identity.

Terrylene · 21/09/2017 16:56

Who on earth are these violent willy wavers some of MN are imagining?

Unfortunately they are all over the internet, and in Hyde park.

busyboysmum · 21/09/2017 16:57

How about this guy:

SomeDyke · 21/09/2017 16:57

I do care about barely concealed bigotry.

So do (most) of us here. It's not bigotry to say that a transwoman is biologically male, or that a transwoman cannot be a lesbian. It is bigotry to say, on the other hand, that lesbians should be open to the idea of sleeping with a transwoman......

So this MN thread is going to be taken into account when making parliamentary decisions?

It was frankly insulting to suggest that MPs won't listen to opinions voiced on Mumsnet (or elsewhere). The fact is that opinions are changing (slightly), as the discussions on here continue, and events such as what happened at Speakers Corner get reported in the press. Stamping your feet and shouting 'bigot' all the time gets a bit tedious, frankly. We know you think we are all bigots, we've heard it before...........and we weren't convinced.

Crowdo · 21/09/2017 16:58

I consider it my role to keep everyone around me happy and safe. As a human being, not as a vagina bearer.

You can read the shitty comments for yourself. It's not all of you, but some people are wayyy out of order.

existentialmoment · 21/09/2017 16:59

Who on earth are these violent willy wavers some of MN are imagining?

You think rapists are IMAGINARY?

WTF is wrong with you?

cudeatahorse · 21/09/2017 17:01

I consider it my role to keep everyone around me happy and safe. As a human being, not as a vagina bearer.

Try telling that to the 60 year old woman who was punched by a man.

Terrylene · 21/09/2017 17:02

And I don't think they will be happy until they have forced this law on everyone. And even then, I expect there will be more with aggressive enforcement - why would they stop when they are getting everything their own way?

SomeDyke · 21/09/2017 17:03

"If you've ever had a penis and testicles you're still male"

Not outrageous, just the simple scientific truth. Humans aren't like those amazing sex-changing fish, for example, however much some people might wish they were. And hurrah again for Cordelia Fine and 'Testosterone Rex' BTW........................

We're getting distracted again, and frankly most of us can predict what Crowdo is going to say next anyway.

sleighbellend · 21/09/2017 17:03

It's outrageous to say that someone who has/had a penis is male? Fucking hell.

Crowdo · 21/09/2017 17:04

So transgender people are rapists and punch old ladies?

I've been sexually assaulted before by a woman. Does that mean you're not allowed in a changing room with me?

HornyTortoise · 21/09/2017 17:05

Frankly, I don't want to see anyone put in a position where they need psychiatric help be denied it, for whatever reason

But this is whats happening due to transactivism! These transactivists actively want to stop trans people from accessing help such as this

I now see why yourself and people on this thread are misunderstanding each others points.

You aren't too up to date on transactivism and what laws and such are changing, are you? I don't mean that to sound patronizing. with a certain amount of mental gymnastics its entirely possible to be up to date with what 'trans' means now, and exactly the kind of people were are dealing with...just its unlikely that many would understand this, and still hold the views you hold.

Who on earth are these violent willy wavers some of MN are imagining? Sadly, the majority of the most vocal transactivists. And considerably large numbers of the total 'transgender' population.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3036489-Woman-attacked-by-transactivists-at-speakers-corner-part-deux?pg=1

Is well worth a read, if you are genuinely interested rather than just trying to silence the discussion.

As is searching up on autogynephilia

Most of us do know transwomen in real life that wouldn't hurt a fly. Unfortunately, there is no way laws can be made that would distinguish between the many different kinds of transwomen that exist...

DistractedByAFatDog · 21/09/2017 17:05

Pmsl!

Why on EARTH is it outrageous to say that having, or ever having had a penis and testicles makes you male?!

Crowdo · 21/09/2017 17:05

I don't care who agrees with me. It needs to be said.

Crowdo · 21/09/2017 17:07

The majority of trans activists are rapists? Bloody hell. You really believe that bollocks?

I'm actually shocked.

Ereshkigal · 21/09/2017 17:07

I know trans people and I wouldn't deny the one of them the shelter of coming into my space if they needed that to feel comfortable.

What about other people, like women who've experienced male violence and need to feel safe and comfortable? Why do only trans feelings, comfort and needs count?

sleighbellend · 21/09/2017 17:08

It needs to be said that it's outrageous to say that penis-havers (get me and my trans activist friendly terminology) are male? You're truly fighting the good fight here, Crowdo.

Ereshkigal · 21/09/2017 17:08

No, that they are male centric "willy wavers". Not rapists. Don't be disingenuous, it's not a good look.

Terrylene · 21/09/2017 17:08

I consider it my role to keep everyone around me happy and safe. As a human being, not as a vagina bearer.

By telling people they must be nice, you are only telling people not to fight back. They will not be safe. They will just not be able to defend themselves. No one is being aggressive. They just do not want to be bullied by hard-line aggressors (or punched).

The only way to do that is to talk about it and find a proper legal way together. Not resort to name-calling, rape threats and punching back.

cudeatahorse · 21/09/2017 17:09

The majority of trans activists are rapists? Bloody hell. You really believe that bollocks?

I'm actually shocked.

Now you're being silly.
You're deliberately twisting sentences and taking things out of context.

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