Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

895 replies

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 00:16

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
FactsAreNotMean · 18/09/2017 22:31

Well there's a surprise. NOT.

I have rarely seen a damper squib than the WEP. They take missing the point and make it an olympic sport

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 22:32

Also Catherine Mayer

OP posts:
YesVeryGoodVeryStrong · 18/09/2017 22:40

But also how on earth can we afford all this treatment on the NHS? It's on its knees as it is.

Datun · 18/09/2017 22:44

The Women's Equality Party are vehemently pro trans.

I wonder if they have been asked for their opinion about this latest violence.

SentimentalLentil · 18/09/2017 22:48

So is ANYONE going to stand up for women then?

RaininSummer · 18/09/2017 22:53

So glad that the message is getting out there albeit slowly. No reaction from fb friends to my posting of the first news report on speakers corner. My partner was chatting to dog walkers last night and trans came up in conversation. They may not know arguments or the jargon, but everyone of them was adamant that trans are not actually women. I find this comforting at least because twitter makes me feel that the lunatics are more numerous than they really are. It feels like there is a madness pushing this agenda along.

cromeyellow0 · 18/09/2017 22:53

Women's Equality Party
it was considered 'politically incorrect' to raise this issue (due to the link with British Pakistani men).

I know nothing about WEP so I just looked at their website. The latest news: Sarah Champion "was right to resign". "Focusing only on the actions of men in specific communities is racist."

That's the common mode of thinking on the left. Ethnic/religious minorities and transgender people are more oppressed than women, therefore their needs have higher priority.

Rumandraisin1 · 18/09/2017 23:12

That's the common mode of thinking on the left. Ethnic/religious minorities and transgender people are more oppressed than women, therefore their needs have higher priority.

As someone who has always considered myself on the left, sadly, I think that's true (although not just confined to the left) - oh, and ethnic/religious minorities means the men from ethnic/religious minorities ie consulting with the male leaders in the community/mosque etc and taking their views and interests as being reflective of the community.

FactsAreNotMean · 18/09/2017 23:16

I struggle with the way the left is handling these identity and oppression issues too. It's really messy

BetsyM00 · 18/09/2017 23:16

So is ANYONE going to stand up for women then?

Welll...there is David Davis, Monmouth MP:
www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/15442950.YOUR_MP_WRITES__David_Davies__MP_for_Monmouth/

TheWeeWitch · 18/09/2017 23:17

What things will look like after the GRA passes 😬

Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux
Rumandraisin1 · 18/09/2017 23:19

I emailed him and, while I disagree with his views on other issues, he did seem to genuinely want to hear and represent women's concerns on this issue.

TheWeeWitch · 18/09/2017 23:21

Sorry to lower the tone there ^

I'm not sure what the original intention of this cartoon was, but it sure is appropriate this week.

Rumandraisin1 · 18/09/2017 23:51

Just thinking....the unfortunate side effect of the media thinking we are called the 'TERFs' (besides this being a slur) is that anyone wondering 'what do they stand for?' and googling 'TERF' will only come up with transactivist-written pages saying that TERFs are evil creatures who want to destroy all trans people etc. Any pages that actually clearly explain what we think don't use the word TERF in them. :-(

FactsAreNotMean · 18/09/2017 23:53

Maybe we need to start a blog which does use the phrase a lot.

Rumandraisin1 · 18/09/2017 23:53

Does anyone here actually run one of the gender critical websites/blogs? Can you put TERF (however offensive that might be) in the metadata or something so that it comes up in searches?

PricklyBall · 19/09/2017 00:01

Well, a gender critical article (New Statesman) explaining why TERF is a term of abuse, and the "TERF is a slur" website both come up on the front page of google for me, and the New Stateman article is the top hit using DuckDuck, so all is not lost.

BetsyM00 · 19/09/2017 00:45

Just realised we've had a thread with 1000 posts, and now well into our second thread, and absolutely no-one has come along to tell us how transphobic we are. Not even anyone to say "Well, every group has it's bad apples."

I really hope this incident has been the tipping point for so many women.

HelenaDove · 19/09/2017 00:56

some of the articles on this are the worst journalism i have ever seen in my life.

HelenaDove · 19/09/2017 01:23

Sentimental Im a 44 year old childfree by choice woman. Ive never really wanted children but was 100% sure of it by the time i was 21. I asked about sterilisation a few times until my early 30s and was refused.

But i dont mind discussing issues around pregnancy. Too many women are expected to bung themselves full of hormonal contraceptives . There is a thread currently running on AIBU where it has become apparent that the DH is trying to bully his wife into having a 5th child. As a childfree by choice woman reproductive coercion has always been one of my worst fears.

Due to not being sterilised when i was younger i then developed an irrational fear of becoming pregnant. I just do not want children and know i would never cope with motherhood Its just not for me. I dont want to derail so wont bang on but women do absolutely need safe spaces where they can discuss things like this and other subjects.

I also would like to apologize to Miranda for referring to him as she on past threads. I didnt realize he preferred the male pronoun.

Watched his vids and respect him a lot. He has gorgeous cats too. Smile

JAPAB · 19/09/2017 06:22

Just realised we've had a thread with 1000 posts, and now well into our second thread, and absolutely no-one has come along to tell us how transphobic we are. Not even anyone to say "Well, every group has it's bad apples."

Think I said earlier that these individuals may have not done their side any favours, as some people are going to treat this as representative of the group, tar with the same brush etc.

It would be a shame if incidents like this did indeed lead many to "peak trans" against the whole group. Just like it would if people let the bad apple Muslims affect their perception of ALL muslims, or the person who assaults a perceived homophobe be taken as representative of homosexuals in general, and etc.

maxthemartian · 19/09/2017 08:02

No, having many achieve "peak trans" is exactly what is needed. It's not against a whole group, it's against allowing trsnsactivists to dictate the terms of discussion and silence women.

PricklyBall · 19/09/2017 08:25

While I get the analogy with Muslims versus Islamicists (and indeed it's one I frequently think of myself in reminding myself that most of the transwomen in real life, the people I know, the people like Miranda, are moderate and sane), there's an important disanalogy. In the case of trans issues it's as if the extreme Islamicists were driving the legislative agenda. Issues like insisting that transwomen should be allowed into women's prisons even if they've been convicted of raping women and female children. Issues like insisting on self-identification in the face of opposition from the professional body of psychiatrists who work with prisoners, pointing out that self ID can and will be misused by violent men pretending to be trans in order to gain access to literally captive pool of vulnerable women. And like extreme Islamicism, it raises heresy to the status of a crime, in having laws against misgendering, up to and including not knowing the 57 flavours of gender like zie and hir (everyone, learn your catechism and repeat it to the priest).

I'd be all in favour of sane laws saying that no-one should lose out on the 99% of jobs where biological sex doesn't matter, or be harrassed out of their housing, for being trans. I'd even back making it a legal requirement for businesses to make reasonable adjustments - e.g. a gender (sic) neutral toilet.

I can even understand the distaste with "gatekeeping" - I have a degree of sympathy with people who say "why should 'the way you are' require a medical stamp of approval?" But there needs to be some sort of checks and balances to prevent the end result of people - any people, whether trans or pretending to be trans for personal gain - self ID-ing to get into a women's shelter, prison, or suddenly, as a mediocre male athlete, finding themselves with the prospect of a glittering and unusually middle-aged career in women's sport.

BeyondNoone · 19/09/2017 08:29

This is a good terf is a slur post that I saw this morning...
shaesplace.com/2017/07/09/its-time-for-you-to-drop-this-expression-of-misogyny-from-your-vocabulary/

OP posts:
FactsAreNotMean · 19/09/2017 08:33

Well said prickly ball.

The safe space double think confuses me. I was told the other day that objecting to tw in female loos - as an example, I hadn't mentioned them- was discrimination as it prevented them from working. The argument goes that it's not safe for tw who are women to be in a male loo. Except they want self identification so any man will be able to access the ladies loo. So how does that make tw safer? It doesn't, it just puts women at risk too.

Swipe left for the next trending thread