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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

895 replies

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 00:16

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 21/09/2017 22:39

I forgot to say, too, most are young and haven't lived comfortable married lives with wives and kids like many AGPs.

WitchBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 21/09/2017 23:58

I've been reading this thread and commenting since last thurs. Sorry to be a pain but someone on thread no 1 posted a link to an outline of the GRA bill and proposed amendment. I've gone through the thread but can't seem to find it. Can someone please re-post the link?

Thanks

Datun · 22/09/2017 01:15

Yesterday 22:37 YetAnotherSpartacus

Which raises another point. Are the transwomen who want to sleep with women and those who want to sleep with men equal in terms of driving the most harmful parts of the trans ideology

"Many of the more loopy and violent TRAs who are anarchists or members of other fringe left groups and who tend towards being called 'queer' as well as trans are not AGP. They are stereotypical violent men. Many are gay."

Can you expand on this? I had the impression that gay men weren't interested in harrassing women. That AGP and misogynistic porn was the motivating factor for access and the targeting of lesbians.

Gay men are now throwing their hat in the ring??

Bloody hell.

WitchBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 22/09/2017 01:58

yetanother I don't get the "many are gay" either. There may be some gay men who are indifferent to women but they're not the people trying to have sex with lesbians or threatening women for wanting to discuss gender.

Pemba · 22/09/2017 02:33

Sorry, what's AGP? Googling it didn't come up with anything useful, only something to do with computer ports.

I only recently starting following the discussion.

Italiangreyhound · 22/09/2017 02:45

AGP - Autogynephilia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology

Pemba · 22/09/2017 02:49

Thanks.

BetsyM00 · 22/09/2017 07:55

Witch I think this is all that has been published so far:
www.gov.uk/government/news/new-action-to-promote-lgbt-equality

More info at the top of this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2995738-Gender-ID-bill-Gender-Critical-To-Do-List

Datun · 22/09/2017 08:38

Pemba

AGP stands for autogynephilia. In old money you would call it a cross dressing fetish.

Basically an arousal at presenting as, and being perceived as, female.
(Often despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary).

In my opinion, it's what has turned the transgender scene around.

People with AGP were refused hormones, on the basis that the NHS wasn't about to finance a fetish. So it went underground. And people just said they weren't AGP, they were genuine transsexuals. To get feminising hormones and surgery. Which mostly did not extend to genitalia.

That's why a lot of people don't know about it.

It's a particularly damaging fetish in terms of women, because it relies on perceiving women as weak, submissive and to be used. See forced feminisation, cissification, etc.

Forcing people to address them as female is part of the arousal, hence the insistence on pronouns. (not to be confused with the 57 genders that the youth are currently in love with).

It can take a bizarre twist when the fetish extends to women's actual biology. So an unhealthy interest in menstruation, pregnancy, breastfeeding, urination, etc. Whilst at the same time being very envious of it.

Now these people are considered transgender, they have a legitimacy that they didn't have before.

The profile is usually middle-aged men, who transition late, often having fathered children and had broken marriages. There seems to be a high prevalence of them having been in macho professions previously, like the army.

It's a compulsion and obsession. If you google 'trans widows', you get the story from ex-wives. And there always are ex-wives. Several have commented on here, in fact.

Bruce Jenner is a prime example. Frank Maloney another.

Grayson Perry, the artist and sculptor is quite open that he is AGP. He says he gets a sexual kick presenting as a woman. But he doesn't say is that he is actually a woman and wants access to their spaces. Hence no threat.

This is why the whole thing is so difficult. Many people know transsexuals who are not like that.

But having someone with AGP in your bathroom means you are unwittingly and unconsentingly participating in their fetish.

Their very presence there, with the women, will be a turn on. They don't have to do anything. Listen to you urinating, watch you use the Tampax machine, hear, or participate in, talk about 'women's stuff', etc.

They are the ones who will be driving the access to women's spaces. It's quite unbelievable that the government are about to pass laws that will facilitate a man's fetish at the expense of women and girls, in order to alleviate the symptoms of a very small number of men with gender dysphoria.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 22/09/2017 08:57

To my questioners above, maybe 'gay' was the wrong word, but there are many male activists who are same-sex attracted (or otherwise 'queer') and usually also far left or anarchist who don't seem to have AGP but who are fuelled by pure and simple misogyny. Look up 'queers with guns', 'queer trans guns' and a host of other pro-violence sites (they call them self-defence). These are the trans who are more likely to look like men but still claim that they are 'trans' or 'women' or 'not passing', etc.

Datun · 22/09/2017 09:03

YetAnotherSpartacus

So just a bandwagon jumping bunch of misogynistic thugs?

Transgender equality seems to have become free access to women, and a stick to beat them with.

Who could have predicted it...

Gingernaut · 22/09/2017 09:07

Um. This has just floated along my timeline

nauticant · 22/09/2017 09:13

A couple of extra points about AGP:

  1. It's an article of faith in the trans ideology that it doesn't exist. That would mean that our recollection of a cross dressing fetish going back who knows how long is a false memory and the many discussion groups on the Internet devoted to it are fake. (Perhaps run by rad-fems as false flag operations.)

  2. At its extreme end, the sexual thrill provided by AGP is about forcing women to accept men as women. This means the pleasure of being a space to make women feel very uncomfortable and unsafe and women being forced to make statements that they know are self-evidently untrue.

It's not just Arthur from down the street who likes to put on his wife Mabel's frocks occasionally when she's out.

Datun · 22/09/2017 09:13

ginger

That is a new meeting organised by the same people who were attacked at speakers corner last week.

They are not shutting up. They are going for it.

Thread started here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3040214-new-gra-debate-in-brighton-this-week

Gingernaut · 22/09/2017 09:22

The fact that, like the Critical Sisters debate earlier this year, the venue has to be kept secret, is just dreadful.

Like hiding from Neo-Nazis. Sad, Angry and Confused all at the same time.

FactsAreNotMean · 22/09/2017 09:23

According the social media the woman who organised last week's meeting has been harassed so badly that she and her young children have had to leave their home

FactsAreNotMean · 22/09/2017 09:25

Except we're supposed to be the literal Nazis huh ginger.

Why is some women having an opinion so worthy of this rage

YetAnotherSpartacus · 22/09/2017 09:33

So just a bandwagon jumping bunch of misogynistic thugs

Yes, I guess you could say that ... but they are well-organised misogynistic thugs who are trained in activism and know all about recruiting. I'm guessing that a lot of the internet violence comes from them and I also suspect that they are some of the main voices in the 'let's trans children' brigade.

hackmum · 22/09/2017 10:28

Facts: "Why is some women having an opinion so worthy of this rage"

That, for me, is the $64,000 question. The violence and aggression and determination to silence women are so disproportionate to the actual threat, which is a bunch of women sitting around discussing stuff.

And it seems to be very organised: everything they do, they accuse us of doing. So they say that we collect their names with the intention of harassing them, that we threaten violence against them etc. Really scary.

FactsAreNotMean · 22/09/2017 10:51

It really is the big question isn't it.

I look at what is being said online and there is so much anger, hate and also utter bullshit:
-they want to deny we exist
-they're committing genocide
-they're fascists
-they want us all to die
as examples. And...none of it is remotely true.

HornyTortoise · 22/09/2017 10:56

Yes, so much rage at females. I have said this before on similar threads, but its very telling that there is no slur against males who question any of this. TERF is used on a regular basis, against any female, radical feminist or not, and tends to be followed by 'should die in a fire' or 'deserve to be raped' or something. Nothing at all about the males...of which there are many...who think that biology is irrelevant.

JAPAB · 22/09/2017 12:23

That, for me, is the $64,000 question. The violence and aggression and determination to silence women are so disproportionate to the actual threat, which is a bunch of women sitting around discussing stuff.

Those discussions are often about why the equal rights and recognition some in that group believe it is entitled to should not happen. And such discussions can form the backdrop to such legeslative denials.

I have seen Christians complain about being called bigots and Nazis and otherwise attempted to be silences, but if you sit around discussing why gay marriages are not real marriages or why laws should prevent gay couples from adopting, you might think these are "mere" discussions but I don't think it is that unexpected that homosexuals and their allies will not see them as trivialities. And some of them might respond quite vociferously.

Lancelottie · 22/09/2017 12:33

Do you think, JAPAB, that all sex-based legal protection should be abandoned in favour of gender-based legal protection? Not negotiated alongside it, but replaced by it? Because that is what we are discussing.

Datun · 22/09/2017 12:47

That's not at all the same thing JAPAB. Gay people do not encroach on the rights of anyone else.

The only dissent from women is the erasure of their own, hard fought for rights.

The only reason we have to delve down into the trans ideology at all is because we have to constantly justify saying no.

We have to spend all this damn time picking apart the ideology and refuting every assertion.

If they didn't want to take away the rights we already have, no one would care. (Apart from the issue of children).

The reason it has intensified is because misogynistic men do not like women saying no. All women know that.

Terrylene · 22/09/2017 13:11

That, for me, is the $64,000 question. The violence and aggression and determination to silence women are so disproportionate to the actual threat, which is a bunch of women sitting around discussing stuff.

It reminds me of the animal rights stuff that went on in the '80s, only it is more updated.

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